About to enter into an iva

Gotinamess

Hi, I'm new to this forum, just to explain my situation, me and my husband have around £45,000 unsecured debt, we were struggling to make minimum payments so after discussion with citizens advice we have decided the IVA route is best way to go. We are waiting for IVA company to contact us.

What I'd like to know is does anyone have any tips on entering one of these, things we should include in budget, ways to make it easier. Etc etc.

Thanks in advance.

UpToMyNeckInIt

Hi,

Do your homework - I think that's the best advice. I went for an IVA, but only after looking at other ways out of my debt problem. Bear in mind that it is a form of insolvency.

The IVA guide available on this site is quite out of date, and with a general anti-IVA stance in my opinion. Have a look at the advice on 'StepChange' website. Despite being a charity funded by the banks etc, their IVA pros & cons page is very informative.

You should always record your income/expenditure honestly at the application and review stages. To assist you regarding what is deemed 'reasonable' expenditure: All IPs make reference to the CCCS guidelines (If you want to refer to them, google:

'cccs budget guidelines report 2011'

...and there you have it - the full (and I believe, current) guidance document - free to download as a pdf. It covers every form of expenditure, (including items I never thought to budget for) right the way down to guideline allowances for hairdressing, kid's school dinners and pocket money if so required.

Keep us posted with whatever you decide to do.

Best of Luck.

Depth_Charge

UpToMyNeckInIt wrote: »

Hi,

Do your homework - I think that's the best advice. I went for an IVA, but only after looking at other ways out of my debt problem. Bear in mind that it is a form of insolvency.

The IVA guide available on this site is quite out of date, and with a general anti-IVA stance in my opinion. Have a look at the advice on 'StepChange' website. Despite being a charity funded by the banks etc, their IVA pros & cons page is very informative.

You should always record your income/expenditure honestly at the application and review stages. To assist you regarding what is deemed 'reasonable' expenditure: All IPs make reference to the CCCS guidelines (If you want to refer to them, google:

'cccs budget guidelines report 2011'

...and there you have it - the full (and I believe, current) guidance document - free to download as a pdf. It covers every form of expenditure, (including items I never thought to budget for) right the way down to guideline allowances for hairdressing, kid's school dinners and pocket money if so required.

Keep us posted with whatever you decide to do.

Best of Luck.

Hi

Interesting, and made me wonder

Below is a link to the Straightforward Consumer IVA protocol

http://www.cleardebt.co.uk/media/3030/2010%20iva%20protocol.pdf

It also mentions the CFS Common Financial Statement that I understand has higher expenditure allowances for food / housekeeping and travel and is updated on a regular basis including very recently and well after 2011.

I was just wondering if all IPs know this (you would hope so as it is their own protocol) as after all they are supposed to be acting in the best interests of the debtor and the creditors.

Strange really, how come the CCCS figures are less than the Common Financial Statement ones (so I understand) maybe the CCCS figures are OK when it suits the other IVA providers on IVA.com

If I was entering an IVA or found out after then I would be shouting this off the rooftops.

Maybe the IVA.com IPs would consider coming on here and explain their own protocol?

We might all learn something and maybe CCCS are not that bad after all. I mean the other companies seem to bow down and champion their trigger figures:)

If CCCS are that bad, then why do the other IVA companies use their trigger figures (and furthermore the 2011 ones it seems)?

If the other IVA companies use the CCCS trigger figures then how can they claim to be better in administering an IVA? what advantages have they for the debtor over CCCS, it cant be up front fees as CCCS dont charge any, neither do Payplan, so what is it then?

Just my take again:)








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UpToMyNeckInIt

Hi DC,

Great link: I had heard of the IVA protocol, but never seen it myself until now. Very useful.

As I've mentioned previously, you can successfully argue for higher allowances - That's no means consistent though I'm sure.

Regarding the CCCS 2011 figures. Again, CCCS (and indeed the firm I eventually went with), referred to them when I was going down the IVA route back in June this year. Also, I regularly read posts by IPs on another forum referring to these figures. Thus I assume they are the most up to date available.

However, you raise a good point about the CFS. It is certainly something I may draw my IP's attention to come review time (only if I am struggling with my allowances of course). Again, this may be a reason why I was able to argue successfully for higher than guideline allowances on car fuel etc.

Regarding why CCCS figures are used. You are going to need an industry insider's view on that. It certainly refers to them in the protocol.

Just how 'good' CCCS are vs other IVA providers. Again, I can only draw on my personal experience: My CCCS dealings were very negative - maybe I had a dud advisor. Either way, if like me you are self-employed, CCCS refer you to Grant Thornton (a commercial IVA provider).

You ought to pose these questions on the forum at www . iva . co . uk. As the name suggests it is 'pro' IVA, but is hugely supportive for anyone having difficulties in their IVA. It also regularly has postings by many Insolvency Practitioners, including Stepchange, who I suspect, will be able to answer these questions far better than anyone here.

That forum also gets its fair share of readers considering an IVA, and a balancing stance such as yours might just make some think before jumping down the IVA route without properly researching the subject. (I hasten to add that I still believe it is the right path for me, but it is clearly not for others).

Freshstart2012

Hi Uptomyneckinit

Did you have to have a face to face meeting with your IP whilst setting up your IVA and did you have to attend the creditor meeting.

As you know I am currently in the process of having my IVA drawn up, one thing that does worry me is the fact that my creditors may not receive any payments for the first couple of months and as I have been on a DMP for the past 3 years and not missed a single payment, I would hate to have two months of harassment again or do the creditors leave you alone as they agree to this in the meeting.

Thanks in advance.

UpToMyNeckInIt

Freshstart2012 wrote: »

Hi Uptomyneckinit

Did you have to have a face to face meeting with your IP whilst setting up your IVA and did you have to attend the creditor meeting.

As you know I am currently in the process of having my IVA drawn up, one thing that does worry me is the fact that my creditors may not receive any payments for the first couple of months and as I have been on a DMP for the past 3 years and not missed a single payment, I would hate to have two months of harassment again or do the creditors leave you alone as they agree to this in the meeting.

Thanks in advance.

Hi Freshstart,

My IP is based in Leeds, and I live in the South East, so I did not have a face-to-face, and there is no requirement to attend the Creditors Meeting. None of this was an impediment to setting everything up. The whole process from my first phone call, to the IVA going live (at the creditors meeting), was 3 Weeks.

Concerning what is going to happen between your DMP finishing and your IVA starting is anyone's guess, and I suggest calling your IP with these concerns.

Once in the IVA, your creditors cannot legally touch you. If you do get calls/letters etc. Explain that you are in an IVA, and give them the IVA reference number and your IP's details and, if my experience is anything to go by, that will be the last you hear from them.

It's quite normal for the IP to draw some of their fees from the first few payments (this will be explained in your IVA proposal). Ultimately these fees come at the expense of the dividend paid to the creditor, and will be a matter agreed accordingly at the creditors meeting (again, speak to your IP/case supervisor for further clarification on this point).

Got my fingers crossed that it all goes ok. Keep us posted.

Freshstart2012

Hi

Thanks a lot for answering my questions so quickly you have helped a lot.

I will let you know how things go.

Depth_Charge

UpToMyNeckInIt wrote: »

Hi DC,

Great link: I had heard of the IVA protocol, but never seen it myself until now. Very useful.

As I've mentioned previously, you can successfully argue for higher allowances - That's no means consistent though I'm sure.

Regarding the CCCS 2011 figures. Again, CCCS (and indeed the firm I eventually went with), referred to them when I was going down the IVA route back in June this year. Also, I regularly read posts by IPs on another forum referring to these figures. Thus I assume they are the most up to date available.

However, you raise a good point about the CFS. It is certainly something I may draw my IP's attention to come review time (only if I am struggling with my allowances of course). Again, this may be a reason why I was able to argue successfully for higher than guideline allowances on car fuel etc.

Regarding why CCCS figures are used. You are going to need an industry insider's view on that. It certainly refers to them in the protocol.

Just how 'good' CCCS are vs other IVA providers. Again, I can only draw on my personal experience: My CCCS dealings were very negative - maybe I had a dud advisor. Either way, if like me you are self-employed, CCCS refer you to Grant Thornton (a commercial IVA provider).

You ought to pose these questions on the forum at www . iva . co . uk. As the name suggests it is 'pro' IVA, but is hugely supportive for anyone having difficulties in their IVA. It also regularly has postings by many Insolvency Practitioners, including Stepchange, who I suspect, will be able to answer these questions far better than anyone here.

That forum also gets its fair share of readers considering an IVA, and a balancing stance such as yours might just make some think before jumping down the IVA route without properly researching the subject. (I hasten to add that I still believe it is the right path for me, but it is clearly not for others).

Hi

Your posts are quite informative and to be honest you do make some fair points.

The IVA protocol is a must read for anyone considering entering one and perhaps more companies should make access to it clearly available (apologies if they do, but I have not noticed many that do)

The IVA protocol also clearly mentions the Common Financial Statement (CFS)

Check the CFS link below for information - you can see on the left hand side of the main page that it says that - New trigger figures are live from 1st September 2012 due to increases in the Consumer Price Index

http://www.cfs.moneyadvicetrust.org/

The allowances on food / housekeeping and travel are more generous than the CCCS ones the last time I looked and if they are still using the 2011 ones, well that is a little strange or maybe its my cynical mind again.

The CFS is basically the recognised Common Financial Statement amongst advice agencies such as the CAB and others and is used in, DMPs, Debt Relief Orders, the Mortgage Rescue Scheme and other areas and of course is mentioned in the IVA protocol and OFT guidelines.

It can be difficult to properly advise people with debt problems where there are different sets of expenditure guideline trigger figures which can never be right.

The CFS version is also supported by the the Money Advice Trust (MAT) - see link below)

http://www.moneyadvicetrust.org/section.asp?sid=14

As does the Institute of Money Advisers (IMA) who run the very much respected Certificate in Money Advice qualification

http://www.i-m-a.org.uk/pdfs/money-adviser-resources/Money Adviser Support Resources.pdf

http://www.i-m-a.org.uk/qualifications.html

I accept that there has to be flexibility with expenditure figures, not all circumstances are the same and some people will wish to pay more and no -one should really be forced into anything

Now I dont compile the CFS figures however I do use them and have succesfully argued them at numerous court hearings, the point is that if much lower figures are used elsewhere then can this not undermine other agencies, advisers and indeed of those with debt problems.

I am of the opinion that where the CFS figures are used then there is less chance of people defaulting on payment arrangements or getting further into debt for example payday loans and not paying their priorities such as mortgage and rent etc.

I dont know what your opinion is or that of the IPs on the other forum you mention or indeed the CCCS / Stepchange Charity posters, but I would most certainly be open to them.

One of the current hot topics in the debt advice sector is a universal approach to expenditure allowances which some of us find a little odd as we already thought we had one - its called the Common Financial Statement (CFS)

I have said before that an IVA can be the right option, but on most occasions in my experience it is not, however you probably know that there is talk of IVAs with much lower monthly payments say around the £100 mark, these are hard times for the IVA companies it would seem, but if a solution works then I am all for it.

The other site you mention does indeed have qualified IPs and lets face it you basically have to have an IP to enter an IVA and they all charge fees and that includes CCCS & Payplan it has to be said.

I have said before, there are IPs on there who I would not hesitate in contacting, with one in particular streets ahead of the others on that site (just my opinion) but it would be wrong of me to recommend anyone in particular and I never do.

Im not one for these client reviews & testimonials however as in my opinion it smacks of marketing and sales.

My bottom line is for genuine is free independent, impartial advice, no up front fees included.

Where there is a financial interest in putting and keeping people in payment plans, then well, the impartiallity can be stretched a little:)

PS - Interesting comments about the other site by the way, is that a compliment or two I see in your post?

UpToMyNeckInIt

Depth_Charge wrote: »

Hi

Your posts are quite informative and to be honest you do make some fair points.

The IVA protocol is a must read for anyone considering entering one and perhaps more companies should make access to it clearly available (apologies if they do, but I have not noticed many that do)

The IVA protocol also clearly mentions the Common Financial Statement (CFS)

Check the CFS link below for information - you can see on the left hand side of the main page that it says that - New trigger figures are live from 1st September 2012 due to increases in the Consumer Price Index

http://www.cfs.moneyadvicetrust.org/

The allowances on food / housekeeping and travel are more generous than the CCCS ones the last time I looked and if they are still using the 2011 ones, well that is a little strange or maybe its my cynical mind again.

The CFS is basically the recognised Common Financial Statement amongst advice agencies such as the CAB and others and is used in, DMPs, Debt Relief Orders, the Mortgage Rescue Scheme and other areas and of course is mentioned in the IVA protocol and OFT guidelines.

It can be difficult to properly advise people with debt problems where there are different sets of expenditure guideline trigger figures which can never be right.

The CFS version is also supported by the the Money Advice Trust (MAT) - see link below)

http://www.moneyadvicetrust.org/section.asp?sid=14

As does the Institute of Money Advisers (IMA) who run the very much respected Certificate in Money Advice qualification

http://www.i-m-a.org.uk/pdfs/money-adviser-resources/Money Adviser Support Resources.pdf

http://www.i-m-a.org.uk/qualifications.html

I accept that there has to be flexibility with expenditure figures, not all circumstances are the same and some people will wish to pay more and no -one should really be forced into anything

Now I dont compile the CFS figures however I do use them and have succesfully argued them at numerous court hearings, the point is that if much lower figures are used elsewhere then can this not undermine other agencies, advisers and indeed of those with debt problems.

I am of the opinion that where the CFS figures are used then there is less chance of people defaulting on payment arrangements or getting further into debt for example payday loans and not paying their priorities such as mortgage and rent etc.

I dont know what your opinion is or that of the IPs on the other forum you mention or indeed the CCCS / Stepchange Charity posters, but I would most certainly be open to them.

One of the current hot topics in the debt advice sector is a universal approach to expenditure allowances which some of us find a little odd as we already thought we had one - its called the Common Financial Statement (CFS)

I have said before that an IVA can be the right option, but on most occasions in my experience it is not, however you probably know that there is talk of IVAs with much lower monthly payments say around the £100 mark, these are hard times for the IVA companies it would seem, but if a solution works then I am all for it.

The other site you mention does indeed have qualified IPs and lets face it you basically have to have an IP to enter an IVA and they all charge fees and that includes CCCS & Payplan it has to be said.

I have said before, there are IPs on there who I would not hesitate in contacting, with one in particular streets ahead of the others on that site (just my opinion) but it would be wrong of me to recommend anyone in particular and I never do.

Im not one for these client reviews & testimonials however as in my opinion it smacks of marketing and sales.

My bottom line is for genuine is free independent, impartial advice, no up front fees included.

Where there is a financial interest in putting and keeping people in payment plans, then well, the impartiallity can be stretched a little:)

PS - Interesting comments about the other site by the way, is that a compliment or two I see in your post?

Hi DC,

Compliment? Pah!!! Never!!!

Joking aside: I stress that my posts are purely my opinion, and based on my personal experiences.

I think you raise some good points as well. We clearly have differing opinions on IVAs though, and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I may not agree with all of your opinions on IVAs, but I respect them, and enjoy debating them. This is because it is important for anyone contemplating an IVA to consider the negative points (being made insolvent, the subsequent banking restrictions, and the potential failure ramifications for example), as well as the up-sides (debt-free after 5-6 Years, often with a large chunk written off - assuming all goes to plan of course).

We are all entitled to an opinion, and it's reassuring for me, even after reading some of yours, that I still feel I went down the right route.

I think the main issue I have, it that it is nigh-on impossible to find genuinely independent advice (on IVAs especially). Just google 'IVA' and see the amount of 'sales' bulls**t you have to wade through.

After trying to initially consolidate the debt (and failing of course), it took me a good 6-Months, from reading the IVA guide on this site, exhausting that advice via the charity IVA providers, researching DMPs and other debt solutions, before resorting to using a private provider.

Obviously, the 'private' debt management / IP's have an inherent interest in selling you a product, but i felt CCCS et al, were far more focused on maximising my return to the creditors (to my detriment to the tune of £Thousands).

Going back to the IVA protocol (I've not read it in full yet). Para. 7.5: 'The expenditure statement should be forward-looking and in line with Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) guidelines OR the Common Financial Statement (CFS).

I read that as IVA firms having a choice to use CCCS figures OR the CFS? Not being required to use both. What do you reckon?

As for 'the other site'. Don't get me wrong, I am an active member of it, and for people looking at or who are in an IVA, is on balance a good source of reference. I have however come across a few postings along the lines of people considering 'opting' for an IVA, when it seems, they still have other options open to them, that won't involve going insolvent. On one such thread, I suggested looking at debt consolidation as a first step, and nearly go shot down in flames by other forum members who generally recommended the IVA route (and even their own IP's in some cases).

OK, it's nice from my perspective to hear of other IVAers having a positive outcome. But I think that forum, on occasions, is also a borderline sales platform for certain IPs.

It would be nice therefore to have more forum members proffering a word of caution, and asking more searching questions of these experts (as you seem to want to). Overall, their advice is in my opinion, pretty good. For that reason, I also reckon, you might get the answers to many of the points you have raised on this forum.

If you deal with people failing IVAs etc. on a regular basis, and work in court (I'm making the assumption you have some form of legal background), I'm sure your contribution would be welcomed, and your opinions heatedly debated!!!

Depth_Charge

UpToMyNeckInIt wrote: »

Hi DC,

Compliment? Pah!!! Never!!!

Joking aside: I stress that my posts are purely my opinion, and based on my personal experiences.

I think you raise some good points as well. We clearly have differing opinions on IVAs though, and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I may not agree with all of your opinions on IVAs, but I respect them, and enjoy debating them. This is because it is important for anyone contemplating an IVA to consider the negative points (being made insolvent, the subsequent banking restrictions, and the potential failure ramifications for example), as well as the up-sides (debt-free after 5-6 Years, often with a large chunk written off - assuming all goes to plan of course).

We are all entitled to an opinion, and it's reassuring for me, even after reading some of yours, that I still feel I went down the right route.

I think the main issue I have, it that it is nigh-on impossible to find genuinely independent advice (on IVAs especially). Just google 'IVA' and see the amount of 'sales' bulls**t you have to wade through.

After trying to initially consolidate the debt (and failing of course), it took me a good 6-Months, from reading the IVA guide on this site, exhausting that advice via the charity IVA providers, researching DMPs and other debt solutions, before resorting to using a private provider.

Obviously, the 'private' debt management / IP's have an inherent interest in selling you a product, but i felt CCCS et al, were far more focused on maximising my return to the creditors (to my detriment to the tune of £Thousands).

Going back to the IVA protocol (I've not read it in full yet). Para. 7.5: 'The expenditure statement should be forward-looking and in line with Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) guidelines OR the Common Financial Statement (CFS).

I read that as IVA firms having a choice to use CCCS figures OR the CFS? Not being required to use both. What do you reckon?

As for 'the other site'. Don't get me wrong, I am an active member of it, and for people looking at or who are in an IVA, is on balance a good source of reference. I have however come across a few postings along the lines of people considering 'opting' for an IVA, when it seems, they still have other options open to them, that won't involve going insolvent. On one such thread, I suggested looking at debt consolidation as a first step, and nearly go shot down in flames by other forum members who generally recommended the IVA route (and even their own IP's in some cases).

OK, it's nice from my perspective to hear of other IVAers having a positive outcome. But I think that forum, on occasions, is also a borderline sales platform for certain IPs.

It would be nice therefore to have more forum members proffering a word of caution, and asking more searching questions of these experts (as you seem to want to). Overall, their advice is in my opinion, pretty good. For that reason, I also reckon, you might get the answers to many of the points you have raised on this forum.

If you deal with people failing IVAs etc. on a regular basis, and work in court (I'm making the assumption you have some form of legal background), I'm sure your contribution would be welcomed, and your opinions heatedly debated!!!

Hi

Its a very interesting and informative post again, with some good points, well done:)

I have to say you seem to be well up on IVAs given the relatively short time you have been subject to one, mind you some people naturally learn quick which should work to your advantage.

I do however find it a shade puzzling that your IVA provider did not go though the straightforward protocol with you and no face to face interview even though I think you have stated that you are self employed.

What I reckon with the CCCS & CFS figures is that any IP should be making sure their client has the best chance of sustaining their IVA payments over the period of the arrangement, now that should not be difficult to work out as far as expenditure figures are concerned, its 'nigh' on obvious really:)

Yes, I do deal with failng IVAs and on a regular basis unfortunately, in fact I have been completing a couple of B/R forms today (IVA to bankruptcy, failure certificates issued, thousands gone in fees and virtually nothing paid to creditors)

The answers, mmm, I am pretty confident the answers will come one way or another.

I think that I have been fair as far as the other site is concerned and it is good to see that there are people doing their best on there to help those who are struggling, unfortunately I can only see things getting worse.

As far as the searching questions and the experts on the other forum are concerned, well, its an interesting thought, if I was you though and it did happen, I would put your money on Depth Charge, hes very experienced in this game and has been in the ring with one or two heavyweights over the years with an unbeaten record too date:)

Joking aside, its been a pleasure talking & debating with you and hope that both you, the O/P & maybe others have taken something positive from this thread as thats what it is all about.

PS - Hope the IVA works out for you

UpToMyNeckInIt

... Actually, looking through my (quite considerable) IVA paperwork, my provider's 'IVA guide' is essentially a slightly simplified protocol (much of which is also translated into the actual IVA agreement).

Got to be honest as well, and say that I had never heard of the 'IVA Protocol' prior to joining the IVA forums (after my IVA was agreed), so I would not have thought to ask to see it.

But given the amount of admin involved in going down the IVA route, I'm not entirely certain that, in the early stages, it is essential reading on top of everything else.

A good reference nonetheless though come review time, or if your IP tries to make you do something in contravention of the protocol (I'll quote it chapter and verse to mine if this ever becomes the case!!!).

The option of a face-to-face was offered - particularly if I would need help with the paperwork, but quite honestly, I did not need it (nice to be offered though). The numerous lengthy telephone conversations, and the ability to exchange paperwork via email was a huge plus as well.

That said, my firm insisted on sending an agent down to me to go through everything one more time, verify my ID, collect the important stuff, make sure everything was completed properly etc. etc. prior to my creditors meeting. But I suppose you cannot be too careful when you consider an IVA.

However, I totally understand how some people would become overwhelmed by the amount of information required at the start of the process, and would need more assistance.

I wonder if mis-selling of IVAs will be the next PPI? I too have come across other scenarios, where clearly the individual would have been better off considering BR over an IVA. (Not an option in my case as a Company Director and a home owner - might have considered it if not though). As you say, the worst case is where people go BR after wasting £thousands in IVA payments.

Example: I've come across one IVA customer, aparently in Council Accommodation, whose only income is state benefits and on an IVA. How the heck does that happen? I ask myself. Understandably he is struggling with his £150p/m IVA payment to put it mildly.

In such cases, I can't help wondering if a commission-based sales rep. 'rail-roaded' them into an IVA, putting company profit above what is best for the customer. I'm also sure this particular example would have befitted hugely from a chat with the debt charities/CAB.

Some of these customer may have a case for mis-selling perhaps?

Finally, thanks for your good wishes for those of us embarking on the IVA journey. I will of course keep you all posted.