Peer-to-peer lending sites: MSE guide discussion

keyboardworrier

Unbolted confirm that the property loan is a one off
http://www.p2pfinancenews.co.uk/2018/03/16/p2p-pawnbroker-unbolted-property/

I hope one thing we get from this is the extension of the secondary market into the pawn loans, I would love to increase my holding whilst also having the option to get out if possible.

takesyourchances

jamesd wrote: »

That's a bit unfair. It's more like the Ablrate business loans that also have property security: justified by business cash flows first with property as backup only. Vs property lending where something happening to the property itself is the purpose.

Because of that I will be putting in a bit to encourage another secured business lending platform like Ablrate.

Fair point James I admit my post would of come across as a bit unfair in this regard as the loan is not for something actually happening to the property itself.

I guess I am investing in unbolted for the 6 month pawn style loans, so was a bit of a knee jerk reaction to the new loan they are asking about being property security.

What is your thoughts James overall on unbolted have you much invested with them?

I have just started recently putting some in.

economic

takesyourchances wrote: »

I can certainly see why you feel with sticking with Ablrate and Lending Works once you reduce down. I plan for these to be my P2P core platforms eventually too if things can get shaped this way.

Ratesetter, for me my overall amount fell below 5% into the higher 4% bracket, with re-payments and lump sum repayments on the 5 year. I made a mental rule with myself never to re-invest in RS below 5%.

Rates can be hard to catch and can fluctuate quite low and it was getting quite annoying checking them for all that was going in. This was my reason getting out and also it was a way for me to reduce me P2P down a little which I changed into my IT's. Yield is not far off the rates sometimes on RT and chance of growth as I buy and hold long term. It was not for the risk of losing money with me with RT like MT.

Tbh, if your happy with the rate your funds are getting on RT, there is maybe no reason to sell. It is a different animal to MT / risk etc.

I done a complete new spreadsheet of all my overall investments last night (an overhaul spreadsheet was overdue), I see how I let P2P run away last year. My P2P has been reduced to just under 15k now. I feel more comfortable now, but £4600 out of this is tied in Collateral, MT is now reduced to £2389 as I sold out of loans I could sell to reduce the platform. £750 of which is left is in default loans. All that is left on MT is for sale but is stuck too due to illiquidity with the rest for sale from others. I will just let it take its course here.

I am experimenting with unbolted a little still and few hundred in growth street to see how that all works for the 30 day business credit loans. Idea is also funds should not be tied up too long if I ever want to withdraw or reduce.

But overall my P2P is reduced, the biggest change for me compared to a year ago now is new money going in has drastically changed and platforms cut out. I will balance some payments back into lending works and add some new funds here and there to LW while the rate is 6%.

Ablrate at the moment I am just re-investing repayments as they come in as it is now my highest holding over 5k. This is also to keep control of my P2P level against other investments and when I do add some new money to new loans etc, I will have to think how much I am comfortable holding in Ablrate as one platform or do a just re-invest payments / withdraw after a certain overall level.

I am adding and plan to add more to my S&S ISA and into some of my investment trusts and raise my cash level up a little. My new spreadsheet is letting me see everything overall together and I don't really want to be much heavier at the moment in P2P overall and I want to see some outcomes from MT start to happen good or bad and same with Collateral.

Also I will buy the odd £250 holding with property partner.

Overall, my P2P is on a major slowdown with new money compared to before and a plan of direction in narrowing down platforms to hold with, like you Albrate, Lending Works and I will see how Growth Street goes and Unbolted goes. Also the other major thing, I won't let my P2P overall percentage run away in line with my overall investments so this spreadsheet overall was needed last night

Totally agree. Spreadsheets help a lot. I have a spreadsheet that has everything i own, property, stocks, cash, P2P, etc.

It has a nice pie chart on the first sheet to see the net worth split by asset class. Then i have a sheet for all my accounts including stock broker, P2P and savings. Then i have another sheet that details all my stock investments.

Its as fully automated as i can make it. Just update values in the accounts sheet. I have a vba macro and some python code that imports my stock positions from my broker website - i hold over 30 different lines of stocks/funds etc. Helps me track stock performance and so i can record snapshots every quarter. Automating has saved me a lot of time.

jamesd

economic wrote: »

What are your thoughts on ratesetter? Why exit it?

No particularly strong reasons to enter or exit, just rates and other competitive factors. They have a rapid access account that could be useful diversification for that class of money. I may well use them for that.

economic wrote: »

Have around 35k total P2P to be reduced to 14k eventually...

I'm still expecting to increase mine to a quarter of a million, though MoneyThing's apparent commitment to lying by omission about loan statuses may inhibit that, since they were to be one of the bigger platforms in the mix and now can't prudently get as much.

jamesd

takesyourchances wrote: »

What is your thoughts James overall on unbolted have you much invested with them?

Peaked a bit under £20k, I expect to target having £30-50k with them, a "full weight" platform allocation. What they do, they seem to do well.

Limitations:
1. No ISA
2. No secondary market

A secondary market there is an interesting challenge at the moment. The seller liquidity part is usually going to be easy. Buyer liquidity will be tougher and probably take inviting expressions of interest for each loan then randomly allocating. A bit like the automatic reinvestment button on some platforms but saying "I want some/more, include me in the random allocation pool". Defaulting to include me for all loans where the buyer has autolend active. Ideally with the ability to set a per-loan ang global cap for each type of loan. Seller comes along and what they are offering gets divided up or more likely randomly allocated in £5 chunks. There are cases where allocations have been high enough for proportional allocation to come into play if a bigger hitter sells what they got.

economic

jamesd wrote: »

No particularly strong reasons to enter or exit, just rates and other competitive factors. They have a rapid access account that could be useful diversification for that class of money. I may well use them for that.

I'm still expecting to increase mine to a quarter of a million, though MoneyThing's apparent commitment to lying by omission about loan statuses may inhibit that, since they were to be one of the bigger platforms in the mix and now can't prudently get as much.

My current 35k represents around 7% of my liquid net worth. I imagine your 250k in P2P would represent a large chunk of your net worth? I remember you used CAPE to decide moving from stocks to P2P. What is your age? I think it may make sense to move to P2P if you are old enough. But realizing the risks with P2P is crucial too.

jamesd

economic wrote: »

My current 35k represents around 7% of my liquid net worth. I imagine your 250k in P2P would represent a large chunk of your net worth? I remember you used CAPE to decide moving from stocks to P2P. What is your age? I think it may make sense to move to P2P if you are old enough. But realizing the risks with P2P is crucial too.

Around 40-50% of non-home investable money, so naturally platform as well as loan diversification issues are important. Losing all of around £35k at Collateral would be annoying but not devastating or life-changing.

Around 55, making diversification even more important. With more than half a million in investable money accumulated from 2005 I could choose to retire, but I don't want to at the moment.

Not just CAPE, I also pay attention to economic cycle and market conditions. Fairly late in the economic cycle, generally not a lot of volatility recently, suggesting to me pretty thorough buy-in to things looking good. Not a point where I want to exit my pretty heavily weighted towards small-cap, APAC and European holdings but it does look fairly late to be high in small caps in particular.

Worth knowing also that my general base position has been and remains close to 100% equities. My current positioning is unusual for me, in part because I have a 30 year plus planning horizon and that tends to favour equities. Though safe withdrawal rate studies haven't shown much difference in SWR provided equities don't go below around 60% (with mostly large-cap, my high small-cap weightings probably shift that for me).

Carolinemjs

I invested £1000 in Ratesetter a year ago having been tempted by the £100 bonus. I've read the guide and skimmed through this thread, am aware of the risks but haven't grasped the finer detail too well.

I have £5000 I would like to invest in P2P and would appreciate any tips on the easiest places to invest - I just want to allocate the money like I did with Ratesetter, not get involved with whether its being loaned on property etc specifically or anything else complicated.
Should I break the £5000 down into chunks of say £500 or less?
I'm retired and in receipt of the minimum state pension.
Any other beginner advice gratefully received, thank you.

keyboardworrier

Carolinemjs wrote: »

I invested £1000 in Ratesetter a year ago having been tempted by the £100 bonus. I've read the guide and skimmed through this thread, am aware of the risks but haven't grasped the finer detail too well.

I have £5000 I would like to invest in P2P and would appreciate any tips on the easiest places to invest - I just want to allocate the money like I did with Ratesetter, not get involved with whether its being loaned on property etc specifically or anything else complicated.
Should I break the £5000 down into chunks of say £500 or less?
I'm retired and in receipt of the minimum state pension.
Any other beginner advice gratefully received, thank you.

Assetz Capital may be the easiest place to invest, they have an easy access account,and a 30 day access account (Subject to normal market conditions) which pays 3.75%/4.25% and will automatically diversify your money into various loans. It's also backed up by a provision fund. They also have other accounts which pay more but liquidity isn't provided, it's subject to other people wanting to acquire your loans.

https://www.assetzcapital.co.uk/invest/our-accounts/quick-access-account

https://www.assetzcapital.co.uk/invest/our-accounts/30-day-access-account

economic

jamesd wrote: »

Around 40-50% of non-home investable money, so naturally platform as well as loan diversification issues are important. Losing all of around £35k at Collateral would be annoying but not devastating or life-changing.

Around 55, making diversification even more important. With more than half a million in investable money accumulated from 2005 I could choose to retire, but I don't want to at the moment.

Not just CAPE, I also pay attention to economic cycle and market conditions. Fairly late in the economic cycle, generally not a lot of volatility recently, suggesting to me pretty thorough buy-in to things looking good. Not a point where I want to exit my pretty heavily weighted towards small-cap, APAC and European holdings but it does look fairly late to be high in small caps in particular.

Worth knowing also that my general base position has been and remains close to 100% equities. My current positioning is unusual for me, in part because I have a 30 year plus planning horizon and that tends to favour equities. Though safe withdrawal rate studies haven't shown much difference in SWR provided equities don't go below around 60% (with mostly large-cap, my high small-cap weightings probably shift that for me).

Im 34 and have a similar amount of investible assets to you (net worth outside of own home).

I guess for me its better to remain invested in equities and have a smaller slice in P2P. I am willing to ride out any storms as i have a longer time horizon.