We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Help with Problem Landlord
Comments
-
OP - have you actually exchanged on the new build yet?
Often tenants are advised not to give notice on their rental property until they've exchanged. That's because the intended completion date can slip massively - particularly on a new build. You don't want to persuade your LL to let you leave on 20 February, and then have to go back begging for a further week.0 -
You seem to be asking for advice regarding a fairly complex issue (land law in this country is hideously twisted). I would recommend contacting your local CAB for personalised and professional advice.
Posting questions in the forum will only get you (1)opinion and (2)sympathy, and most of the responses so far seem a little short on (2)
Not too complex an issue really unless you are unfamiliar with LL& T Law, as your comment suggests you perhaps are - the bottom line is that if you are signed up to a FT tenancy agreement then you are legally obliged to pay the rent and other costs associated with the tenancy for the full duration of that tenancy UNLESS the LL agrees otherwise.
To clear any confusion that you may personally have chrism00, that's a fact not an opinion: a fact which has been flagged up by the majority of respond posters. Your confusion perhaps arises from not being able to separate out the "facts" from the "story" in the first post?
However, as this is a public forum, it *is* always wise for an OP to seek clarification of what they read on here before acting on it but whether the OP calls Shelter, the CAB or goes for a fixed fee interview with a local LL&T specialist solicitor he will be told exactly the same thing.
Other points:
(a) a T choosing to spend their own money on tarting up a LL's property let on a short FT always runs the risk of not being given the opportunity to remain in situ to enjoy the fruits of their labour/expenditure for very long. All the LL need to do is follow the appropriate route to legally bring the tenancy to an end.
(b) The fact that the LLs want to end the tenancy after the FT does not mean that the T has a right to leave early - he has no agreement in writing to say that he may do so.
(c) LL is under no obligation to take into consideration the money spent by the T in this case when deciding whether or not to agree to an early relase from the FT tenancy. AFAIAA it appears that the *T* wanted the work done which seems to have been cosmetic: lumpy plasterwork may be unattractive but it does not mean that the LL was obliged to deal with it nor pay for the work as part of his statutory repairing obligations.
(d) it is best to not ever rely on what an LA *says* to you about their view of a LL's potential intentions, whether or not the EA/LA is someone known to you. It does not read as if there was ever a formal agreement that this property would eventually be sold to the T. Clearly the LA was doing nothing more than expressing an opinion.
Doing business with friends and friends of friends is fraught with the potential for misunderstandings and upset - best avoided altogether where possible IMO.0 -
OP why not see if you can get the LL to perhaps meet you halfway by agreeing to you being released one month early. Sell it as saving both you and him time and money.
I called my friend at the estate agency and made this offer. It takes us to the 20th March 2013, 11 days before the end of his tenancy so I'm hoping they accept that.
If they don't then he will have to pay another month's rent at the flat he is living in so I would think they would be happy to accept but I really don't know now.Cor I dont get all the posts digging at what they have done up until now, it is all immaterial the OP clearly wants advice regarding the verbal contract and leaving the contract early.
It's because I am naive and the problem
thanks for understanding my request.The advise you get on here will tend to be informing you of your legal rights. Unfortunately in your case it sounds like your landlord has done everything by the book which is all most posters will be looking at. You seem to be relying on people's word and good will, but unfortunately these are business transations.
One of the problems with verbal agreements is they can be very vague. For example your talk about buying the house after three years. If you just asked at the viewing if this would be an option then of course he is going to say yes - what landlord wouldn't be happy to sell a property if offered above market value, and he wasn't making any commitment to sell. You've offered well below market value, so why would he ever sell it at that price?
I thought you had a tenancy until April? Doesn't that mean your landlord will be briefly homeless, rather than have a one month void?
I think she meant you were naive to trust people's good will.
As I mentioned, the estate agent is a friend, the landlord is also a friend of the agent. Maybe it was naive of me to trust what my friend was telling me, but serious what % of people wouldn't??
The offers were what we could afford at the time. They weren't made to make a quick profit, or to rob them, they were made as an offer to HELP them if we could! When we moved in, we told them we wanted to stay for a minimum of 3 years and asked for first refusal should they decide to sell the property, which they said was fine.
Yes, there will be a period of almost one month where the landlord will be "homeless", or he will pay another months rent at his current property.You seem to be asking for advice regarding a fairly complex issue (land law in this country is hideously twisted). I would recommend contacting your local CAB for personalised and professional advice.
Posting questions in the forum will only get you (1)opinion and (2)sympathy, and most of the responses so far seem a little short on (2)
Thank you, I will contact them today and see if they can assist us professionally. I came to this forum looking for advice from people who had maybe been in similar circumstances, I was hoping to find people who agreed with morals rather than paperwork but seems theres not many people like that nowadays. Definitely didn't get much sympathy, but that's fine... certainly opened my eyes.OP - have you actually exchanged on the new build yet?
Often tenants are advised not to give notice on their rental property until they've exchanged. That's because the intended completion date can slip massively - particularly on a new build. You don't want to persuade your LL to let you leave on 20 February, and then have to go back begging for a further week.
No, not yet. We are due to exchange before 1st January. I appreciate builds often go over their dates (we have purchased 2 previously), however us buying this property was supposed to be a solution for the landlord and ourselves. If the property build was delayed we had already arranged to live with parents for the period in between, however the property is due to be completed in January, so pretty sure it should be done by March at the very latest. It is the last batch of properties in phase 1. Either way, we wouldn't have to request an extended stay here.0 -
You seem to be asking for advice regarding a fairly complex issue (land law in this country is hideously twisted). I would recommend contacting your local CAB for personalised and professional advice.
Posting questions in the forum will only get you (1)opinion and (2)sympathy, and most of the responses so far seem a little short on (2)
Whilst it is very good advice to seek a professional opinion on any situation, I do not know what OP will gain from it. There is nothing really complicated in this scenario at all.
1. OP signed a binding agreement - I think they have accepted and agree with this.
2. OP took it upon themselves to spend money on improving a property that was not theirs, and only had a verbal suggestion that it ever would become theirs - I think they have also accpeted this.
3. OP then took notice of various verbal suggestions that LL might sell, might want to move back and might allow them to end the tenancy - as 1 above, the agreement is binding, and OP need not have moved even if the property was sold, until the end of the agreed fixed term, at the earliest, and need not have done anything until formal written notice was received.
4. OP also then took these verbal suggestions to embark on another round of expense to secure alternative accommodation, and now seems to expect the LL to accept the early termination of the tenancy.
Nothing in the OP's actions above, nor the agent/LL's dithering about what they might do with the property, gives them an automatic right to end the tenancy early and nothing really requires any sympathy. The LL does not need to recompense them for the money spent improving the property, nor take that into account when deciding whether to allow an early end to the tenancy.
However, as I said in my earlier reply, if they wish to negotiate an early end, they should write direct to the LL, explaining the situation and ask for their consideration of an early surrender!
If think some of the terse reqplies, are a result of OP's inference that the LL here is a "problem", when infact they have done nothing wrong - other than suffer the breakdown of their relationship and perhaps confused the OP slightly on their intentions for the future.0 -
If think some of the terse reqplies, are a result of OP's inference that the LL here is a "problem", when infact they have done nothing wrong - other than suffer the breakdown of their relationship and perhaps confused the OP slightly on their intentions for the future.
Jesus... they have done plenty wrong. We have tried our best to come up with solutions for them during their "breakdown", then they stone wall us when we come up with a solution we were told was suitable for all. I wasn't confused in the slightest regarding their intentions for the future.
Look, at the end of the day they shouldn't rent a house out (or at least should of been honest about their situation) that they would want to move back into or sell and promise long term when their marriage was in the process of ending, that's a fact! They shouldn't of authorised us to carry out work on the property when their marriage was ending, another fact! They left us hanging for 4 weeks not knowing where we would be living with a baby due. They have ignored requests for repairs to be carried out on the property. They allowed us to move into a property that wasn't safe. They have put their friend (the agent) in a ridiculously awkward position.
If you think the above is acceptable then that's your issue really. I certainly wasn't brought up to find that type of behaviour acceptable and I grew up on a rough council estate!
We have requested repairs to the property (some dangerous) on numerous occasions and if they refuse our offer of leaving 1 month early, I'll be insisting these are repaired immediately or seek legal advice to leave the property immediately on the basis that the property is unsafe to live in and the landlords will likely receive Personal Injury Claims & Personal Item Damage Claims for their Negligence for events that have already occurred.
I had hoped to avoid the above by being fair with them however they aren't really leaving me with much choice. If you guys want to disagree with me that's fine, I'm sure you all would would follow your own advice if you were in this situation :T0 -
Jesus... they have done plenty wrong. We have tried our best to come up with solutions for them during their "breakdown", then they stone wall us when we come up with a solution we were told was suitable for all. I wasn't confused in the slightest regarding their intentions for the future.
Not accepting your "solutions" doesn't make them wrong.
Look, at the end of the day they shouldn't rent a house out (or at least should of been honest about their situation) that they would want to move back into or sell and promise long term when their marriage was in the process of ending, that's a fact!
They gave a 6 months tenancy. That's the legal position. Oh and putting "fact" is a bit silly, especially as it's an opinion that they shouldn't have done it.
They shouldn't of authorised us to carry out work on the property when their marriage was ending, another fact!
No, YOU shouldn't have carried out the work on a 6 month tenancy.
They left us hanging for 4 weeks not knowing where we would be living with a baby due.
They have ignored requests for repairs to be carried out on the property. They allowed us to move into a property that wasn't safe.
Oh, here we go - if you don't hear what you want, new information suddenly appears to strengthen your view. But you haven't mentioned this before (not that it changes the tenancy agreement anyway).. but what are you actually on about?
They have put their friend (the agent) in a ridiculously awkward position.
The agent should know what the law is and what the situation is between the 2 owners. The agent has put themself in this position.
If you think the above is acceptable then that's your issue really. I certainly wasn't brought up to find that type of behaviour acceptable and I grew up on a rough council estate!
What's growing up on a council estate got to do with it?
Time and again on here LLs and Ts are told they should treat letting on the basis of the law. You want the law/contract to be ignored when it suits you; would you be happy if the LL did the same?
We have requested repairs to the property (some dangerous) on numerous occasions and if they refuse our offer of leaving 1 month early, I'll be insisting these are repaired immediately or seek legal advice to leave the property immediately on the basis that the property is unsafe to live in and the landlords will likely receive Personal Injury Claims & Personal Item Damage Claims for their Negligence for events that have already occurred.
Er, you're just being silly now. This has suddenly been added - and there have been injuries have there?
Anyway, unless you can get Environmental Health to declare it unfit for human habitation you're on a loser.
I had hoped to avoid the above by being fair with them however they aren't really leaving me with much choice. If you guys want to disagree with me that's fine, I'm sure you all would would follow your own advice if you were in this situation :T
Just because people don't say what you want to hear doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right.
Would you prefer me to say "Yes, you are right; morally the LL(s) should have accepted what you proposed" ?
Unfortunately the moral position is irrelevant. :cool:0 -
Not being silly at all really. Like I said, I had hoped to avoid using previous problems as a way to engineer a move out of the property, therefore never mentioned it as I wanted to leave on good terms.
We requested the leak in the conservatory be fixed, which is wasn't. My partner slipped and knocked the tv off the unit, hurting herself and damaging the tv (we had to replace).
They laid tiles themselves in the kitchen which weren't laid properly, "dot and dabbed" the term used by the tradesman looking at it, the tiles have cracked and in some places sharp, we have had to tell our son not to go into the kitchen with no shoes on as my partner has cut her feet on the tiles.
The toilet is not fixed to the floor in the family bathroom, our little boy has fell off this twice already.Unfortunately the moral position is irrelevant. :cool:
My point exactly when referring to my upbringing... I have morals, I wouldn't do what they have done and feel comfortable doing it. I would much prefer being like this than a knob hiding behind paper agreements when most other tenants would of been far more awkward than us.
I came here for assistance/advice, not for an argument. Hasn't worked out really so this will be my last post.
I hope that you never find yourself in this situation, but if you do you are happy to take your own advice and don't feel even a little bit aggrieved.0 -
Am I missing something here?
OP signed up to a 6 month tenancy and now wants to break it.
Is there anything more to it than than that?
No idea what all this stuff about the LLs marital problems has to do with it.0 -
My point exactly when referring to my upbringing... I have morals, I wouldn't do what they have done and feel comfortable doing it. I would much prefer being like this than a knob hiding behind paper agreements when most other tenants would of been far more awkward than us.
Paper agreements are how contracts generally work - describing the entire business sector as "knobs" is a bit childish.
Perhaps you should have asked them to stick to the "paper agreement" in dealing with the repairs that needed doing?
You'd have saved the cost of the conservatory repair, could have had the toilet sorted, possibly got the room re-plastered etc.
Your view of a "moral approach" has seen you spend out on repairs that you didn't need to and now sees you upset at the LLs sticking to the agreement.
Can you see why these "paper agreements" are used? :cool:0 -
But perhaps I've misunderstood? If you were given the offer of a new 6 month lease "3 weeks before christmas" was this December 2011?
Surely a 6 month lease expiring in April 2013 must have been signed in October 2012?
It might help if the OP were to reply to this question - we're still more than three weeks before Christmas now so giving that as the timeline is either inaccurate or is muddying the issue.
If the tenancy WAS signed in December'11 and no further one has been signed then the OP would be out of the fixed-term by now and need only give a full month's (rental period's) notice.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 351.9K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.1K Spending & Discounts
- 244.9K Work, Benefits & Business
- 600.5K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.4K Life & Family
- 258.7K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.6K Read-Only Boards