care home fees

clemmatis

margaretclare wrote: »

As far as I can see it all boils down to what is meant by 'care'. These are patients who are mentally ill and don't just need 'care'.

Indeed it does depend on what's meant by "care".

This was a major test case (the HQ of Age Concern, as they were called then, were jumping for joy -- the ruling went beyond what they'd expected)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3442629.stm

but still, many who should qualify don't get it. They get means-tested council funded care, which can of course = zero.

are the staff qualified to look after mentally-ill patients? It's probably called something different nowadays, but it used to be RMN.

Probably not. Probably, only nursing homes specifically licensed for dementis care have suitably qualified staff. Many nursing homes that aren't do have to look after people with dementia (though they try not to admit them) simply because it hasn't been diagnosed.

The relevant diagnosis is EMI, this is an interesting thread about it

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?106967-Who-Pays-For-Elderly-Mentally-Infirm-Nursing-Care

Pollycat

margaretclare wrote: »

Yes, I know they do, but...are the staff qualified to look after mentally-ill patients?

I don't know if they are or not.

I guess the relevant councils should verify their credentials and continue to monitor the care they give residents.

But whether they do or not is up for discussion.

Errata

margaretclare wrote: »

Yes, I know they do, but...are the staff qualified to look after mentally-ill patients? It's probably called something different nowadays, but it used to be RMN.

As far as I can see it all boils down to what is meant by 'care'. These are patients who are mentally ill and don't just need 'care'.

Mentally ill? People with dementia aren't mentally ill, their brains are damaged, and people living in residential care aren't patients they're residents.

Pollycat

Errata wrote: »

Mentally ill? People with dementia aren't mentally ill, their brains are damaged, and people living in residential care aren't patients they're residents.

Exactly, Errata - and that's why I used the correct term.

Pollycat wrote: »

I guess the relevant councils should verify their credentials and continue to monitor the care they give residents.

And that's why I said this:

Pollycat wrote: »

Are you confusing care homes and nursing homes?

I believe that MargaretClare is confusing the two and I don't think it's helpful to the OP.
It sounds to me that the OP's friend's Dad is in a residential home that takes Dementia sufferers.

I think she needs to investigate whether the Dad should be assessed for eligibility for CHC.

I don't think there is anything that says people in residential homes suffering from Dementia do not have to pay for their care (dependant on their financial circumstances, of course).

Errata

The majority of residential care homes now have dual registration which covers both nursing and residential care.

clemmatis

Errata wrote: »

Mentally ill? People with dementia aren't mentally ill, their brains are damaged, and people living in residential care aren't patients they're residents.

They are still though better off in homes that can cater for the Elderly Mentally Infirm (that's the official term) -- some care homes have relevantly trained staff, some nursing homes do.

OP, as I said, ask Age UK and the Alzheimer's Society. They both know the regulations and the case law.

PurpleJay

Just thought I would chip in.

My mum has vascular dementia. During a stay in hospital where she deteriorated greatly, she was assessed as requiring EMI or nursing dementia care.

A DST assessment was carried out by a multi-disciplinary team (included Sister, nursing staff, mental health team, social worker and me). The recomendation was that she be fully funded ie would receive continuing health care funding from the PCT.

Mum does not have to pay for her care. She no longer receives Attendance allowance. Her pension is still paid to her.

In order to qualify for CHC funding there has to be a serious health care need. Those who qualify tend to have a number of other ongoing issues not just dementia, although some of these issues may be caused by the dementia.

The assessment involves a number of headings including cognition, behaviour, mobility, nutrition, medication, continence etc. Each area is given a score and at the end the over all recomendation is made. Then the case goes to the PCT panel and in mums case went to PCT mental health panel as well. Regular reviews are carried out and recommendations at to care and medication are made. The PCT have to be happy with and contract with the care hom or they won't pay.

You can get residential homes who take dementia patients and nursing homes which do. Some like mum's do everything. Some home are just EMI (dementia) and some are mixed. Social services will give you details and so will the PCT. It is a bit of a minefield. I visited about 15 homes before deciding on mums. They are brilliant with her.

EMI means elderly mentally infirm. Some consider it an outdated term and don't use it anymore. They say nursing with dementia. Some homes say on the list they take these residents but when you visit, they are a mixed home and will only take people with mild to moderate dementia. Mum has severe dementia.

Mum does still recognise me but needs a massive amount of care. She was high falls risk on admission and very aggitated needing 1:1 care. She had 1:1 care in hospital following a couple of falls. She forgot she couldn't walk. As she settled this was no longer necessary. She is no longer mobile and has to be hoisted. She can be aggressive and refuse to take her meds. She is loosing weight and is very frail. She is no longer able to sit for any time in a wheelchair. She has a recliner chair in the lounge. She has contractures in her legs which are painful. She is on 2 hourly turns. She has bed rest everyday after lunch. She has swallowing issues so is on thickened fluids and puree food. She is on hi cal supplements. She is doubly incontinent. She has limited cognition, almost no short term memory and her long term memory is intermittant. She can become aggitated and anxious but less so these days, she is more settled.

Errata

Purple Jay - could you explain what you man by 1:1 care, it's not a term I understand.

Mojisola

Errata wrote: »

Purple Jay - could you explain what you man by 1:1 care, it's not a term I understand.

I imagine it's one patient, one carer.

When Dad was in hospital recently, there were several people who were on 24 hour bed watch - they had one person sitting beside them 24 hours a day because their care needs were so high.