care home fees

mo1_2

my friends dad is in a home because of dementia,the council pay something towards the fees and her dad pays the rest,i thought i had seen something about people with dementia not having to pay,or have i dreamt this?

mel48rose

Hi, I work as a nurse in a dementia home and as far as I understand patients pay the same regardless of their diagnosis.

clemmatis

I'm afraid it isn't as simple as "people with dementia don't have to pay".* I suggest your friend tells AgeUK and the Alzheimers Society about her father, they may be able to advise.

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/

grannyjo

When symptoms of dementia become severe, the patient can be put on the nhs continuing care catagory, which means they do not pay. When I looked into this for my mother, the altzeimers association said it was important to register symptoms early. As a rule of thumb they said, when the paerson no longer recognises close family, that is the stage of continuing care, but it depends on the assessment done . It is important to read up on it and get a fair assessment done as the assessors try to gloss over difficulties and avoid this catagory. The altzeimers association are very good with advice.

Pollycat

OP
you may be thinking about CHC - Continuing Health Care - where the care is funded by the PCT, not the council.

This seems to be incredibly hard to get accepted for.
There is a long thread as a sticky on this board or google CHC.

margaretclare

There is a lot of injustice around the treatment of this particular illness - Alzheimer's disease. It is a 'disease' - the name defines it - but unlike other diseases it may often fall outwith the scope of the NHS.

We had a friend at church who developed this. There would have been no question of him paying anything - he and his wife had been missionaries and were by definition 'poor as the proverbial church mice'. He was treated in the local psychiatric hospital initially, at first day-stay, then in-patient but allowed out at weekends, then, finally, he was admitted to an EMI home under the care of the NHS. When he was still allowed out his wife used to bring him to church because the old hymns sparked something in his memory and this was thought to be good for him. Eventually, in the EMI facility, he no longer recognised her. He died of pneumonia.

This was all within the scope of the NHS. It's an illness. There have been heartrending and long-drawn-out accounts here and elsewhere of the trauma that patients and family members have been put through. It was tragic that our friend died the way he did, but at no stage did he fall outside the NHS or was there any question of payment.

Pollycat

margaretclare wrote: »

We had a friend at church who developed this. There would have been no question of him paying anything - he and his wife had been missionaries and were by definition 'poor as the proverbial church mice'.

If he had fallen outside the NHS, without savings the council would have paid for his care - albeit taking the majority of his benefits to contribute.

Is CHC different regarding requiring a contribution from the patient from benefits?

margaretclare

Pollycat wrote: »

If he had fallen outside the NHS, without savings the council would have paid for his care - albeit taking the majority of his benefits to contribute.

Is CHC different regarding requiring a contribution from the patient from benefits?

So in that case the council would have paid rather than the NHS? But it is a psychiatric illness defined as 'elderly mentally ill'. How do some people fall within the care of the NHS and others with the council? Who makes the decision 'someone needs to go into a home'? This often, according to what I've read on this site, follows on from a spell in hospital. So there is medical input at that stage.

clemmatis

margaretclare wrote: »

So in that case the council would have paid rather than the NHS? But it is a psychiatric illness defined as 'elderly mentally ill'. How do some people fall within the care of the NHS and others with the council?

I suspect that this is because if CHC is awarded, the PCT pays for everything, regardless of means. CHC isn't awarded because of a diagnosis but because of a medical condition (probably) combined with a need for specialised nursing care.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2392.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=155

So people who are told by a hospital team that they must enter a home may not get CHC.

My mother got this -- again, not means tested

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/what-is-nhs-funded-nursing-care.aspx

All council care is means tested.

Pollycat

margaretclare wrote: »

So in that case the council would have paid rather than the NHS?

As I understand it, yes.

margaretclare wrote: »

But it is a psychiatric illness defined as 'elderly mentally ill'. How do some people fall within the care of the NHS and others with the council?

I have no idea how the decision is made.

margaretclare wrote: »

Who makes the decision 'someone needs to go into a home'?

I have no idea who makes that decision, although when my Dad started suffering with Dementia, someone from our local council adult social care and someone from our local hospital visited him at home and agreed we should look for a care home. no mention was made about CHC. He was self funding for the whole of his stay in the care home.

margaretclare wrote: »

This often, according to what I've read on this site, follows on from a spell in hospital. So there is medical input at that stage.

Are you confusing care homes and nursing homes?
A lot of care homes have facilities for dementia patients.

margaretclare

Are you confusing care homes and nursing homes?
A lot of care homes have facilities for dementia patients.

Yes, I know they do, but...are the staff qualified to look after mentally-ill patients? It's probably called something different nowadays, but it used to be RMN.

As far as I can see it all boils down to what is meant by 'care'. These are patients who are mentally ill and don't just need 'care'.