EDF direct debit manipulation

snowcat53

backfoot wrote: »

They recognise this by offering you £50 to take it away but won't admit it is in error. They had hoped to avoid the EO case fee. You have to weigh up ultimately whether you want to accept and move on, bearing in mind that the EO awards are hopeless.

Following the equally shameful complaint handling in my case, I invited Ofgem to review the detail of this thread. (and other associated cases).

I decided to fight on and rejected their explanation and offer. I am not bothered about the amount awarded in the end - as you say I may get no more from the EO but I want either an admission (or EO ruling) that their decision to increase the DD was completely unjustified and their explanation contained gross errors. I have given them a final chance to accept this before taking it to the EO

They may or may not have realised I took them to the EO before and won on my own account. With this shower they won't have put 2 and 2 together. (or rather they will have, and made it 3!).

Good news re Ofgem, and I hope that they do more than read this thread. EDF have been able to get away with this abuse and flouting the rules for far too long.

jalexa

A "snippet" to keep the thread simmering.

One of my several different:rotfl: explanations mentioned a 20% action tolerance. I have previously expressed surprise not to have been "reviewed" until quite recently. When I revisited the previous statements and applied what I *believe* is the Edf methodology (only count the direct debit payments, not other credits or brought forward credit balance) I found the previous results were within the 20% tolerance.

What this appears to show is the absurdity of the Edf calculation practice. It is the reducing number of remaining payments which causes the tolerance to be exceeded and triggers a recalculation. The reducing (or small) number of remaining payments arithmetically guarantees the recalculation will be an excessive hike. Where is the principle of payment smoothing there?

In addition "manual calculation" explanations (but not IMO the automated calculation) seem prone to losing a remaining payment. And for good measure the "manual calculation" explanations altered the relevant Statement statutory cost projections. To make a calculation containing 2 fundamental errors fit?

snowcat53

Another response from EDF's Customer Service Director, flying the white flag and finally admitting their errors. The goodwill payment is now £100, so more than I asked for. :beer:

I don't like the blame being put on the advisors though. And I don't believe this isn't still happening to hundreds of thousands of their other customers..

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Thank you for your email.

I can confirm the Direct Debit review was completed in error and Mrs X’s payments did not need to be increased. I have discussed Mrs X's account again with our Direct Debit specialists, and they have confirmed an error was made in their original calculation which has regrettably caused me to provide you with incorrect information.

I can not tell you how sorry I am for this, and I can assure you feedback has been provided to the advisors concerned to highlight the errors made and to ensure the same mistakes are not made again in future.

In recognition of the difficulties we have caused, I have credited Mrs X’s account with a further goodwill payment of £50.

If you have any further queries or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me on 0845 300 #### or by return mail.

Yours sincerely
####
CSD's Exec team

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backfoot

Excellent news Snowcat and a credit to you for your perseverance. Enjoy the goodwill payment with your mother.:beer:

I hope Ofgem have noted the admission of error by EDF, albeit after yet another ridiculously long struggle.

Puts my £20 Energy Ombudsman award into perspective.

jalexa

backfoot wrote: »

I hope Ofgem have noted the admission of error by EDF,

And how exactly do you get Ofgem to note the admission of error, and more importantly to take action?

For most people I think a generous ex-gratia award is a good outcome.:T

I note that Edf have admitted error, I assume in the "manual calculation" explanation. They have not however explained the automated calculation.

I have to restate that my automated calculations are all consistent with "non-regular" credits being ignored. The "manual calculations" also ignored "non-regular" credits and only managed to agree with the automated calculation by making a total of four false representations, specifically projected cost of gas, projected cost of electricity, total of regular credits and number of remaining payments. All wrong.:rotfl:

BTW, the automated calculation does not appear to count ex-gratia credits or the previous review credit balance. Good luck to snowcat in getting hands on the £100.:D

snowcat53

jalexa wrote: »

And how exactly do you get Ofgem to note the admission of error, and more importantly to take action?
...
Good luck to snowcat in getting hands on the £100.:D

Backfoot did say they were reading the thread I think.
I'm very happy to provide full documentatiuon to them if asked.

As for the £100, it's already credited to the account, thanks

jalexa

snowcat53 wrote: »

As for the £100, it's already credited to the account, thanks

My point wasn't that that wouldn't happen, even promptly, but how you would "get hands" on it. Given that it appears only "regular payments" influence direct debit automated recalculation, ex-gratia payments and 'annual review' credit balance appear "invisible" to the direct debit automated calculation. Well you will find out one way or another next review which breaches the 20% tolerance threshold.

You may need to request a "refund". I had two ex-gratia payments "refunded" on request. Bizarrely, the refunds appear equally invisible to the direct debit recalculation, but not to the Statement account balance.

snowcat53

Well I am very happy to say that all discussion of what might happen at the next review (annual, interim or whatever) and of direct debit calculations is now academic for me, because a switch is in train to Sainsbury's Energy.. I look forward to a rather simpler and less fraught time with them (I hope!)

spursdebs

I so wish I had found this thread months ago, EDF incompetence knows no limits, they have driven me mad and worried the life out of me.!

They sent me a bill for £938! said I was using £46 a week in gas ( small 2 bed flat 5 rads on a max of 6 hours a day) they wanted to increse my DD from£92 a month to £264!!

After countless phone calls and emails and quite frankly BS from EDF, it turns out they owe me £757, but looking through my new amended bill, that is not even correct!

I did not even think to ask for a goodwill gesture but as I am back trying to sort it all out again I will!!

It turns out that they have been reading a 5 dial meter instead of a 4 dial meter, even tho I told them the meter must be wrong, it has been up to me to prove I was right not them admit they were wrong.

This is just a brief descirption of my problems with EDF,they even text me on Christmas day to pay my bill!!

I am now going to get pre payment meters, I do not trust a word that comes out of their mouths!

snowcat53

Perhaps the final stage in my saga on this thread.

Following the EDF grovelling apology noted above (#284), I have replied pointing out that their response only dealt with the manual calculation given by their 'Direct Debit specialists' (!) after I raised the query, and not the original computer calculation that hiked the DD in September. ( as pointed out by other contributors here). So i have asked them to address that point also.


It is clear to us here the computer software they use to recalculate DD payments has gross systematic errors, and is unjustifiably raising DDs for hundreds of thousands of their customers. This penalises the most vulnerable customers who end up paying more in advance than they need to. I told them I was considering raising this issue with Ofgem and the Consumers' Association.