FRAUD WARNING for NATWEST ACCOUNTS

dalesrider

Agricolae wrote: »

I know I don't have all the facts

then having your claim turned down with the reason being "you compromised your PIN" doesn't seem to make sense.

They have refunded the money.....

They have paid up. I would say they have a standard letter and someone has sent the wrong one out.

End of the day money has been refunded.

Forget about it.

iwanttoberich

dalesrider wrote: »

They have paid up. I would say they have a standard letter and someone has sent the wrong one out.

End of the day money has been refunded.

Forget about it.

I don't think the OP should just forget about it, or anyone else that it has happened to. The bank refunded the money so the whole matter should now be swept under the rug? I have always felt that some of these new ways of accessing your bank account are way too easy for fraudsters.

It's nice of the bank to pay up, but it is always the customer who is inconvenienced and has to bend backwards proving that fraud has taken place. There is nothing wrong with admitting the system was flawed and either taking steps to improve it or abandoning it altogether. At least it will help to prevent it from happening to others. For me, as a NatWest customer also, it would show that the bank does have my interest at heart instead of trying just to save face.

steve-L

iwanttoberich wrote: »

I don't think the OP should just forget about it, or anyone else that it has happened to. The bank refunded the money so the whole matter should now be swept under the rug? I have always felt that some of these new ways of accessing your bank account are way too easy for fraudsters.

It's nice of the bank to pay up, but it is always the customer who is inconvenienced and has to bend backwards proving that fraud has taken place. There is nothing wrong with admitting the system was flawed and either taking steps to improve it or abandoning it altogether. At least it will help to prevent it from happening to others. For me, as a NatWest customer also, it would show that the bank does have my interest at heart instead of trying just to save face.

I feel like this, do I have the energy is the question?

Everything the bank did was 'just wrong'....
First off, I'm in Paris and have no money... and have to get to the South of France for work.
They block my card (although it appears the card was never the problem). When I ask about them letting me make a withdrawal they refuse and when I ask how they expect me to get back tot he UK they actually suggested Western Union....

I keep asking questions and they keep passing me between card fraud and online fraud... each time taking 10 mins and re-authentification.

I can't pay for a ticket to the airport and RATP don't take Amex (my backup) so I have to find a taxi takes Amex (about 1:100)....
I spent over 1 hour on international from my mobile bill was over £200 (and extra time to Amex trying to get card authorised for emergency cash withdrawal that I just ran out of time for)
Then my colleague has to meet me at a hotel and pay the taxi from the airport at he other end...
Coming back had to meet a friend in Paris (Taxi again) and borrow money....and then arrange for a friend to pick me up from a station (Now Saturday morning, I've changed my ticket and had to stay overnight in Paris)

Luckily I speak fluent French.... Luckily I had colleagues and friends in France. They would have quite happily left me stranded and trying to get a Western Union money transfer!

Following this I got back and called again, still no further.... they won't even tell me what happened.
Monday I go into a local branch .....

The woman is helpful and phones them up, she gets passed forwards and backwards.
Noone will say why/how.....
At one point she tells the person on the phone "I am sat in front of the client who is trying to find out what happened and I am embarrassed".

I just want at this point to know WHAT was compromised.... was it my email? etc. What other info did they give to the fraudsters?
Obviously I need to know what else might be compromised. I know they GAVE access to my savings account because they transferred £300 ..... to my current....

So I created a NEW account, local branch, different S/C
Closed both previous accounts
Set up all the new DD and SO
She explains I have the online activation code and it is unopened/sealed. They are not interested.
Then I get given the new account form.... It has the fraudsters email and telephone number on it!

I point this out and the bank clerk calls back fraud....
They are not interested.

Throughout this I'm treated like I did something wrong....
It is suggested I left my card and compromised my PIN....
I tell them that is not possible. This is then followed up with a letter saying the same.

Summary, I'm out of pocket and wasted a lot of time and had a LOT of stress.... they cancel my card when the card was irrelevant and leave me stranded in another country.

They have paid up. I would say they have a standard letter and someone has sent the wrong one out.

End of the day money has been refunded.

Well they repaid the £1400, not my expenses including the LONG calls from my mobile.....
It probably is a standard letter..... there is no excuse for that when THEY made all the mistakes.....heck I deserve a hand written apology.

dalesrider

steve-L wrote: »

Well they repaid the £1400, not my expenses including the LONG calls from my mobile.....
It probably is a standard letter..... there is no excuse for that when THEY made all the mistakes.....heck I deserve a hand written apology.

Not going to defend them here.

They should at least cover some of the call cost. Over 1 hour is excessive.
Western Union is often used by banks to transfer cash to people stuck without cash overseas. As it is a easy service for the customer to get cash from.

You don't say exactly when this happened, so we have no idea of how far into this event. You were when it started kicking off. It would appear that you must have been in near the start given the run around you got. Or the staff would have known exactly what had happened and how to deal with it.
Although it appears there were 2 diffrent scams on the go at the same time. App & emergancy cash.

I would raise it as a complaint and see where it goes. All it will require is a call to start the ball rolling. Just tell them your story and you are not happy (might chuck in complaint to ensure it gets logged). As there are a lot of these. They will be bending over backwards to settle without it going to FOS... They are already in hot water on this.
Might take a while. But will be worth it.

Advice for future trips. Take a couple of cards from diffrent providers, that are taken widely worldwide.
As you are aware Amex is not really one of them.

Take_it_like_a_man,_sonny

Oh my god. Internet explorer 5 Stored my password for online banking with lloyds in 2000.

Agricolae

dalesrider wrote: »

They have paid up. I would say they have a standard letter and someone has sent the wrong one out.

End of the day money has been refunded.

Forget about it.

Ah, my attention to detail was clearly lacking there.

Yes it sounds like a standard letter - wrong template may have been used.

steve-L

dalesrider wrote: »

Not going to defend them here.

They should at least cover some of the call cost. Over 1 hour is excessive.
Western Union is often used by banks to transfer cash to people stuck without cash overseas. As it is a easy service for the customer to get cash from.

Most of the call was actually being transferred, reestablishing my identity etc. then transferred again......

You don't say exactly when this happened, so we have no idea of how far into this event. You were when it started kicking off. It would appear that you must have been in near the start given the run around you got. Or the staff would have known exactly what had happened and how to deal with it.
Although it appears there were 2 diffrent scams on the go at the same time. App & emergancy cash.

19th Sept....

I would raise it as a complaint and see where it goes. All it will require is a call to start the ball rolling. Just tell them your story and you are not happy (might chuck in complaint to ensure it gets logged). As there are a lot of these. They will be bending over backwards to settle without it going to FOS... They are already in hot water on this.
Might take a while. But will be worth it.

Advice for future trips. Take a couple of cards from diffrent providers, that are taken widely worldwide.
As you are aware Amex is not really one of them.

Cheers

One way that the fraudsters got access to the codes was to report the card lost.
Hence it would be stopped.

Yep but that is about the only thing they didn't suggest happened?
When I first called they said I had gone over my spending limit...it wasn't until I said I hadn't withdrawn any money for a week they even considered fraud....

Nor does it explain why I had a telephone/internet activation code sent?

What really ****es me off is the fact they have avoided actually reporting this. I reported it myself to the fraud helpline... and got the reference number. I'll use that in the complaint letter.

magpiecottage

I agree with dalesrider except that I think a written complaint detailing the costs incurred, ideally with evidence, will (or rather should) avoid the need for going to and fro over this.

I would also ask for compensation for the significant distress and inconvenience you have been caused.

If the bank does not wish to involve the Police in the fraud then that is their loss, not yours.

timbo58

The banks are a law unto themselves.
I have had a long running argument with our company's merchant bank regarding chargebacks from one or two 'customers'.

i.e. Customer claims not to have participated in an online services transaction, (you can regard this as deliberate fraud or a mistake it has the same effect).
Their card issuer reclaims the payment.
We are charged £15 chargeback fee by our own merchant bank and lose the payment also.

We dispute the customers chargeback statement with a full breakdown including payees IP address/email address and name of the account (not able to collect more information that this under the DPA regulations).

The merchant bank reply turning down our dispute with a standard letter including the phrase 'it is evident this is a fraudulent payment'.

I have asked by email/telephone and letter why if it is 'evident' they have not taken action: after all they are now stating they have 'evidence' that someone has committed fraud: a very serious offence under the theft act 1968?

This is not a victimless crime: the company has lost and incurred expenses due to fraud, and no one seems keen on persuing the matter.
Outrageous frankly.

My opinion is when a chargeback statement is made by a cardholder they should not only be made aware that they are signing a legal declaration (that does have implications if it should be misused) but that any costs normally then made to the company will be passed back in full to the cardholder should the statement later be judged not to be true.

steve-L

timbo58 wrote: »

The banks are a law unto themselves.
I have had a long running argument with our company's merchant bank regarding chargebacks from one or two 'customers'.

i.e. Customer claims not to have participated in an online services transaction, (you can regard this as deliberate fraud or a mistake it has the same effect).
Their card issuer reclaims the payment.
We are charged £15 chargeback fee by our own merchant bank and lose the payment also.

We dispute the customers chargeback statement with a full breakdown including payees IP address/email address and name of the account (not able to collect more information that this under the DPA regulations).

The merchant bank reply turning down our dispute with a standard letter including the phrase 'it is evident this is a fraudulent payment'.

I have asked by email/telephone and letter why if it is 'evident' they have not taken action: after all they are now stating they have 'evidence' that someone has committed fraud: a very serious offence under the theft act 1968?

This is not a victimless crime: the company has lost and incurred expenses due to fraud, and no one seems keen on persuing the matter.
Outrageous frankly.

My opinion is when a chargeback statement is made by a cardholder they should not only be made aware that they are signing a legal declaration (that does have implications if it should be misused) but that any costs normally then made to the company will be passed back in full to the cardholder should the statement later be judged not to be true.

Exactly, its either fraud and should be investigated as such or not..... if its not fraud and they 'made a mistake' then it is at their expense.

The issue I was having, and I'll try again now this is a recognised thing and I'm not a early victim.... was the bank seemingly doing all it could to avoid a police fraud investigation and the FSO being involved.

It obviously is fraud..... I can prove I was outside the country and they KNOW my card was with me as I tried it in ATM's..... so it can't be someone I gave the card and PIN to....

They also refused to take evidence including the fraudsters email and mobile number both from me and from a customer services person in my local bank!