Amazon £7bn sales, but no tax! Should we boycott Amazon this Christmas?

scroogeboy

The only thing that is going to persuade the likes of Amazon to change their ways is adverse publicity and consumer boycotts

Companies such as Amazon and Google are like business drones, because unlike Starbucks they have little physical presence where we can organise demonstrations. They just cream loads of money from the UK economy from a safe distance

Ah yes, but they charge VAT? Not on books. No UK VAT on digital downloads. Employers national insurance? Not much if workers are low paid. PAYE and employees national insurance - the workers pay those. Business rates - not much on big sheds, I suspect. We get very little from their activities

In fact they hardly pay tax anywhere. So that's why the prices are low ...

The idea that a company which trades off a .co.uk website and which is fast becoming a monopoly does not operate a business here is ludicrous. OK. Let's use Book Depository - oh Amazon bought it. Abe Books - Amazon bought that. Sounds like monopoly behaviour to me.

Yes it is is going to be hard weaning myself off Amazon, but if everyone did it, it would produce a result.

So I'm going to make a start. Have already gone to several places directly for no extra cost

jap200

Treevo wrote: »

Then you don't understand what you're apparently outraged about.

Any company domiciled in the UK that sells to other EU countries is doing exactly what Amazon EU is doing, only for the benefit of UK PLC.

So if you are truly against Amazon EU's actions then you should be boycotting every company that does the same, regardless of whether the country is Luxembourg or the UK.

Just noticed this post from a while ago. What a weird understanding (not) of how international business works. I regularly invoice countries in the EU for services. The invoices are zero VAT rated under reciprocal VAT arrangements, but the profits that I make on EU services are subject to corporation tax in exactly the same way as work charged to the UK.

My profits are small fry (plankton) compared to these massive companies, but I still pay more corporation tax than some of them. I suppose if I wanted to I could find a way to avoid some of it, but that would be morally WRONG so I don't.

On another note I discovered to my dismay that The Book Depository is also owned by Amazon, so all the books I have recently bought from them as part of my Amazon avoidance have actually been continuing to prop up Amazon's profits!

This article from the Guardian makes interesting reading:
How to shop and ensure your cash isn't going to a tax haven:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/dec/07/shop-ensure-your-cash-isnt-tax-haven?INTCMP=SRCH

[Deleted User]

scroogeboy wrote: »

In fact they hardly pay tax anywhere. So that's why the prices are low ...

So I'm going to make a start. Have already gone to several places directly for no extra cost

I've been doing this for a couple of weeks now - have saved LOADS because I'd developed a terrible "Amazon habit"; far too easy to click on yet another book, CD, DVD, etc. And the other things I've realised (as you have) is that they are NOT always cheaper . In fact, this is on the guardian's website at the moment - it's a survey which compared Amazon prices with its rivals:


"The survey, by global marketing consultancy Simon-Kucher and Partners, analysed the prices of the top 100 print books in the UK between 30 October and 9 November, at Amazon and seven other online booksellers, WH Smith, Blackwell's, Alibris, Kennys, BookFellas, the Amazon-owned AbeBooks and the Book Depository. While Amazon, which some consumers are considering boycotting over its (legal) tax avoidance, was the cheapest option for its top 20 bestsellers – 6% cheaper than competitors – for books ranked 21-50, Amazon charged a premium of 13% compared with the lowest-priced alternative, and for books in its top 51-100, that increased to 15%.".


So, they're a bit like supermarkets - for the basics (i.e. the top 20) they charge cheaper prices, but they bump up the rest to make up for it. Very clever marketing

Treevo

jap200 wrote: »

Just noticed this post from a while ago. What a weird understanding (not) of how international business works. I regularly invoice countries in the EU for services. The invoices are zero VAT rated under reciprocal VAT arrangements, but the profits that I make on EU services are subject to corporation tax in exactly the same way as work charged to the UK.

My profits are small fry (plankton) compared to these massive companies, but I still pay more corporation tax than some of them. I suppose if I wanted to I could find a way to avoid some of it, but that would be morally WRONG so I don't.

On another note I discovered to my dismay that The Book Depository is also owned by Amazon, so all the books I have recently bought from them as part of my Amazon avoidance have actually been continuing to prop up Amazon's profits!

This article from the Guardian makes interesting reading:
How to shop and ensure your cash isn't going to a tax haven:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/dec/07/shop-ensure-your-cash-isnt-tax-haven?INTCMP=SRCH

So which countries other than the UK have you been paying corporation tax to?

Doc_N

From the Indie today:

"The head of the internet giant Google has defiantly defended his company’s tax avoidance strategy claiming he was “proud” of the steps it had taken to cut its tax bill which were just “capitalism”."

tomasb66

Another unacceptable face of capitalism.This arrogant excuse for a businessman thinks that the people paying a fair price to a society in return for profits are mugs.
Google is also proud of their status as most used homepage .
It hasn't cost me anything to change my home page away from them .If enough of us do it we can make it cost Google real money

Doc_N

tomasb66 wrote: »

Another unacceptable face of capitalism.This arrogant excuse for a businessman thinks that the people paying a fair price to a society in return for profits are mugs.
Google is also proud of their status as most used homepage .
It hasn't cost me anything to change my home page away from them .If enough of us do it we can make it cost Google real money

Too true. Microsoft used to be the most hated company in IT - Google are catching up fast.

Money_Mad

I boycotted Amazon this christmas. Dispite not paying any tax Amazon are not any cheaper then else where in most cases.

Basil1234

sorry i understand your moral objection of them not paying any tax but what you have all missed and i personally think you all very stupid for this and is obvious as a huge spot on the end of your nose.

Is this the politicians are stirring this all up saying how bad it all is getting etc but they are getting you to listen and getting a gain for them hoping you will remember them when it comes to voting and how hard alot of people are having it now which is true but this a truly diversionary tactic in order for them to be showing how well they are doing there job!

now for the clarification of the stupid bit and i hope you are all reading taking this in because you hopefully will feel a bit dense the ones that are moaning!

it is the politicians that set the laws in the houses of parliament biggest question if they are so outraged with all of this why haven't they changed the law to stop this??????

answer is they haven't because this was set up to attract global businesses years ago to the uk to do business otherwise they would have not come to the uk at all but i still don't see the government changing the law do you????

now who feels stupid there must be some!

personally i like the status quo as it is i get cheap goods until the government puts its money where its mouth is and changes the law which will kill global businesses coming/using the uk you think that will make recession longer and harder? i do!

also as a side not i reckon amazon has saved me in the region of £2000 over last five/ten years and if i could not have bought alot of these goods cheaper i would have done without alot of it and kept my money in my bank!

anyway if people have an answer to the government changing the law i be interested to hear an answer because imho they won't.

same as the papers being full watched as suggested by the lord leveson inquiry, David Cameron just did what suited in the end even to the annoyance of all his colleagues. can you see the similarities now?
or you think they will actually do something if you do then you really are stupid, i suggest thinking on before certain people attain moral high ground because the reality is unless amazon decide themselves to pay tax in two countries it won't, i personally hope they don't at the end of the day its business they are there to make money within the current legal framework which they are doing, the rules set up by this government.

if you want to get things changed i suggest you write to your mp and no.10 i reckon is a waste of time just as paper inquiry was and that only cost £3.6 million and reckon will end up at £5.6million do you reckon that was a gross waste of money because i do! i wonder how many hospitals that would have kept open???
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15686679

and as the advert says
jog on kitties

basil :beer:

DaisyFlower

So they make use of tax allowances by basing their head office elsewhere, no different ti lots of other big companies. Even the OP admits to taking his salary in dividends as its more beneficial tax wise! Most SE people use loopholes and how many people in the uk are actual paying tax given the amount of people who dont work or claim more back in tax credits.

At least Amazon are providing jobs, keeping couriers in work and providing a great service.