Amazon £7bn sales, but no tax! Should we boycott Amazon this Christmas?

[Deleted User]

Those of you who are supporting the boycott, might be interested to go to the YOU & YOURS website on BBC radio 4 - I caught today's discussion on this topic on the car radio. You can Listen Again to it. Some really good points on the issues involved, including the success of previous boycotts (other topics), how companies like Amazon get away with it, what it costs the UK and what the longer term, wider implications are (e.g. for the welfare system) - which were frightening.

Treevo

sharkmark wrote: »

I'm with the OP

I've read the articles with interest and I'm disgusted with the behaviour of these large brands. Stating they are doing what is fiscally responsible (attributed to Treevo above) might be true legally BUT it shows that some of our largest companies are morally bankrupt...

It is worth noting that I believe companies who are on the verge of financially bankrupt might have legitimate excuse not to pay corporation tax, but I don't think Amazon or Starbucks fit into that category. They do pay NI and tax on employees, BUT small traders like the OP are being driven out of business as they cannot compete. Soon we will be left with fewer options to buy from and we have all seen the effect of a lack of competition in the gas and electric industry. We are already seeing JL, Amazon and Tesco price matching on many items, without further competitors we are going to see far more fixed prices on the horizon.

Sadly the govt won't act in the short term, it'll take years for them to close all the loopholes, and an army of accountants will be looking for them, leaving one hope....consumer choice.

In order to better inform consumer choice we need a league table showing which companies pay the most tax as % of their turnover...if MSE produced such a list companies would want to ensure they were included unless they had something to hide... Therefore you'd end up with a saints and sinners list and could have a more informed choice.

I am determined not to use Amazon until they sort out their tax position, despite them being cheaper on occasion for items I buy. If everyone did this for just a month they'd change their stance pretty quickly...

Do you also boycott British companies who sell overseas but do not pay corporation tax in those countries, instead paying it here?

Treevo

Corona wrote: »

I thought I'd do a bit more reading around this and pass this on to those who are interested in supporting the boycott.

Amazon is currently being investigated by the US tax authorites and as part of that they've discovered that Amazon UK sales over the past three years were between £7.6bn and £10.3bn. This would have generated taxable profits of £266m-£360m and yielded national UK corporation tax of around £100m.

So, what sort of difference could £100m make to the UK?

One example I found is that £100m is the exact figure of the current deficit of all the NHS London Hospital trusts; as a result, job losses will follow, short cuts will be taken, waiting lists will grow and patient care will suffer.

And we're only talking about ONE company. Just think of all the money that could be clawed back from all of them and the difference it would make to this country (especially as it struggles to recover from the recession).

We may, individually, think we're saving a bit of money in the short term by supporting what Amazon is doing (and by buying from them, that's what we are doing) but in the longer term we're all losing out.
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You're still missing the point - they are not one of 'our' companies. They are based abroad just like many companies that sell in the UK. Are you calling for a boycott of all such companies? As well as British companies which do the same abroad. If you find the behaviour so repellent then surely your principles must compel you to treat all companies the same?

Treevo

Corona wrote: »

Hubby and I have already joined the boycott. And, incidentally, they're not always cheapest. I've just bought a book I wanted at Tesco for £3.87 - it costs £5.99 on Amazon at the moment. Normally, I'd have just clicked on Amazon but like you I object to them paying ZERO corporation tax. I suspect I'm about to save myself a lot of money - too easy to click on their site.

Anyone who wants to really make the point - just order something from them; then immediately return it - and write on the returns docket (where it says reason for return) that you object to their failing to pay any UK corporation tax. It will cost them money to pay return postage, plus they have to log all reasons for things being returned, so the message will get through.

Thanks for starting this thread. Nice to know we can't all be bought.

It won't cost Amazon anything if someone does this - they'll just deduct the cost of return from the refund.;)

[Deleted User]

sharkmark wrote: »

I'm with the OP

I am determined not to use Amazon until they sort out their tax position, despite them being cheaper on occasion for items I buy. If everyone did this for just a month they'd change their stance pretty quickly...

Me too. It will be an interesting experiment - a Christmas without Amazon !

P__G

I shall be boycotting Starbucks, Cafe Nero, Amazon, Google (there are far better search engines anyway) and Ebay due to their stance on tax avoidance.

I shall be using Cooperative, Sommerfield Supermarket, John Lewis and Dixons - as UK tax payers!

BumbleBUK

P__G wrote: »

I shall be boycotting Starbucks, Cafe Nero, Amazon, Google (there are far better search engines anyway) and Ebay due to their stance on tax avoidance.

I shall be using Cooperative, Sommerfield Supermarket, John Lewis and Dixons - as UK tax payers!

Then you must be loaded!
:rotfl:

FrugalFranny

P__G wrote: »

I shall be boycotting Starbucks, Cafe Nero, Amazon, Google (there are far better search engines anyway) and Ebay due to their stance on tax avoidance.

I shall be using Cooperative, Sommerfield Supermarket, John Lewis and Dixons - as UK tax payers!

I did wonder about Ebay, just didn't get round to looking it up :beer:
As said in a previous post, a list of companies involved in UK tax avoidance on MSE would be a good idea, not sure about the legal aspects though of putting up a list like that.
At least then people can have a look at clear cut list and make up their minds if they are going to boycott or not.

But doesn't Amaz*n pay taxes in Lux'? If so how can we demand tax from them?
It's all very confusing......:(

Do other companies pay tax for having distribution points in the UK?

I'm not being sarcastic, really just wondering.... :think:

Obsywobsy

If you want to cut these companies out of the deal and still save money, its worth realising that the majority of partner sellers on eBay and the like list there only because they have to. This is due to the first-mover advantage they built up, which could also be called the "800-lb Gorilla effect". If you're a small business selling online often the only way to get a broad reach for your products is to become a lister on eBay or the other big sites. These sites have developed a number of features to re-inforce this relationship, mainly the secure transaction and buyer guarantee schemes.

However, as a buyer, you don't have to go along with this. Simply drill down into the site to find the seller's business name, then use Google to locate the seller's own website or contact information. Its against the site's policy for a seller to arrange sales "off site" like this, but there's nothing to stop you finding out information then reaching a seller outwith that system, no rules will be broken if you order a product directly as long as you don't message the seller through the big site.

Then bingo! no more untaxed profit on the deal for the big offshore companies. At this point, you might even like to consider being cheeky and asking for a 10% discount. Since the big sites cream off at least 15% commission, you can get this and still leave the seller ahead of the game.

And wouldn't you rather chat on the phone to a real person, or have a brief email exchange. The transaction is just as secure in its own way, if you worry about unsecure cc info you can always Paypal or send an old fashioned check. Heck, Paypal belongs to eBay, but at least thats only 2-3% commission, not 15%. My rule of thumb is Paypal for anything under about twenty quid, check payment for anything over, or you can use a credit card if you want extra buyer protection, e.g. for a computer or camera purchase. As for refunds policies and such, that's all covered by the sale of goods act anyway, I doubt if you're making the job of complaining any harder by cutting out the middle-giant.

Remember that by boycotting Amazon and eBay altogether you are ruining the christmasses of many innocent and hard-working and TAX-PAYING UK citizens who rely on these sites for their income.

littlereddevil

If they did pay taxes our government would just hand it to some other foreign country anyway. I'm sure they wouldn't use the money wisely for the good of this country.