Economy 10 and 3 phase - feasible or not? ..CONCLUSION: Yes but E7 simpler & cheaper

FAI

The house is 770m2. GSHP chosen because we have sufficient land and house is self build and we do the ground works and lay the collector pipes ourselves. We have a dry air cooler to supplement the GSHP. We have done extensive research:)

FAI

john1 wrote: »

You could try speaking with e-on business team 0845 302 4315 as they have possibly more knowledge of 3 phase supplies and services.

Thank you john1. I will try them tomorrow.

albyota

Fair enough, well done for researching, good luck with the self build, I too, took the self build option, still not finished.....!

AL

Terrylw1

FAI wrote: »

What a brilliant reply Terrylw1! Thank you so much.
I am at RG10 post code (Wargrave, Berkshire). Use is domestic. I would be very grateful to know available meters.
We already have a "temporary" 3 phase meter installed by SSE (Scottish & Southern) as a "commercial supply" during the new build. We are at first fix stage and now need to get the correct 3 phase domestic meter installed in the house - hence the need to finalise multi (or single) rate tarrif.

OK, I'll have a look shortly and see what there is.

Are you aware that if you are domestic, you can't be billed as a commercial by a supplier? That's covered in the Standard Licence Conditions (SLC). Whilst a meter must match up to a tariff, there is no reason a supplier couldn't bill, you on domestic and resolve the meter issue. They know they can't charge you commercial rates.

If you have a meter, you must have a registered supplier and at least 1 MPAN. Could you advise on this as it will be relevant to some of the meter combinations?

Did you need a 3 phase meter during the build phase? A 3 phase supply can always have a single phase meter attached until your need changed.

I just have a funny feeling that you've slipped into one of the grey areas where they have fit a business only meter to get around it for now. They know if they then bill on commercial rates, they are in breach of Ofgem's SLC's.

FAI

Terrylw1 wrote: »

OK, I'll have a look shortly and see what there is.

Are you aware that if you are domestic, you can't be billed as a commercial by a supplier? That's covered in the Standard Licence Conditions (SLC). Whilst a meter must match up to a tariff, there is no reason a supplier couldn't bill, you on domestic and resolve the meter issue. They know they can't charge you commercial rates.

If you have a meter, you must have a registered supplier and at least 1 MPAN. Could you advise on this as it will be relevant to some of the meter combinations?

Did you need a 3 phase meter during the build phase? A 3 phase supply can always have a single phase meter attached until your need changed.

I just have a funny feeling that you've slipped into one of the grey areas where they have fit a business only meter to get around it for now. They know if they then bill on commercial rates, they are in breach of Ofgem's SLC's.

Are you aware that if you are domestic, you can't be billed as a commercial by a supplier? Yes. I am quoting commercial terminology used by SSE in the contract to lay the 3 phase.

If you have a meter, you must have a registered supplier and at least 1 MPAN. Could you advise on this as it will be relevant to some of the meter combinations? Current supplier is npower but we are 3/4 way through changing to Scottish. In fact I was wrong we currently have a single phase meter.

Did you need a 3 phase meter during the build phase? A 3 phase supply can always have a single phase meter attached until your need changed. No we have not needed 3 phase yet. We need it now to install GSHP.

HappyMJ

FAI wrote: »

Thank you HappyMJ for your reply.
I have already done what you suggest. It all depends on whether your house is designed to take a resonably high percentage of it's electricity demand during the low cost periods.
I have done the calculations today using EDF October 2012 tariffs.
Using 10,000kwhours per annum with 60% overnight / low rate usage cost £1505 with standard single rate tarrif, £1208 with Economy 10 and £1132 with economy 7.
The reason for asking the question about (and preference for)economy 10 is that with an additional 3 hours per day available at the low rate, the estimated %low rate usage would increase from 60% (or whatever rate is achieved with economy 7).

I would prefer to install a lower rated heating system on a single phase and keep it running 24/7 and maintain the property temperature all day long on a low standard rate such as about 11p/kWh plus £100 standing charges (total bill £1,200). So not sure where you get 15.05p/kWh for your standard rate as there are much better rates than that. Personal preference though. If I had E10/E7 there are still times throughout the day when you need to use peak rate heating and there is a premium on the day rate as opposed to a standard rate tariff.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi FAI

There's not a great deal I can add to Terry's excellent post.

As Terry says, Economy 10 can come in various guises. The actual type and availability depends on the meter operator for the region.

To confirm john1's advice, Heatwise is only available in the East Midlands region so not an option for you.

I've just spoken to the meter operator for your region and they do still offer a form of Economy 10. Whether this is suitable for your requirements, though, depends on the technicalities involved.

I'm afraid, I'm not that technical and wouldn't be able to offer any guidance on this. I would suggest, though, you speak directly to the technical support at the meter operator for the region.

As far as the tariff is concerned, we only offer one for Economy 10 meters. Other suppliers may offer other alternatives so best to check with each to see what's available.

Of course, all this may change as the whole country moves over to Smart metering in the next few years.

Malc

FAI

john1 wrote: »

FAI yes heatwise is a 10 out of 24 hr supply only and specifically designed for Storage heating Not exactly what you require. You could try speaking with e-on business team 0845 302 4315 as they have possibly more knowledge of 3 phase supplies and services.

For information for anyone else with all electric site and GSHP so looking at Economy 10...
I tried the number provided by John1. I was redirected to 0845 301 5921 = E.On Domestic new connection team.
I spoke to a really helpful representative and here is what I learned.
1. E.On does install Economy 10 3 phase meters.
2. E.On does have an Economy 10 tariff in RG area.
3. E.On will only take me onto the Economy 10 tariff if I
a) arrange for the new meter to have a new MPAN (meter registration number), as opposed to re-using my current meter's MPAN number which is currently assigned to npower and b) get E.On to do the installation.
4. The new meter may have 2 MPAN's.
5. If I were to ask for Economy 7 meter and tariff the above restrictions would not apply.

Next step for me is to speak to SSE with whom I have a contract to do the installation work.

FAI

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc wrote: »

I'm afraid, I'm not that technical and wouldn't be able to offer any guidance on this. I would suggest, though, you speak directly to the technical support at the meter operator for the region.

As far as the tariff is concerned, we only offer one for Economy 10 meters. Other suppliers may offer other alternatives so best to check with each to see what's available.


Malc

Thank you Malc for your reply:)

speak directly to the technical support at the meter operator for the region . Could you explain / amplify, as this does not mean anything to me. Sorry.

As far as the tariff is concerned, we only offer one for Economy 10 meters. Can you tell me what it is? I haven't been able to get the information from E.On. Thank you.

HappyMJ

FAI wrote: »

Thank you Malc for your reply:)

speak directly to the technical support at the meter operator for the region . Could you explain / amplify, as this does not mean anything to me. Sorry.

As far as the tariff is concerned, we only offer one for Economy 10 meters. Can you tell me what it is? I haven't been able to get the information from E.On. Thank you.

All suppliers charge pretty much the same amount on E10 as there is no competition for the tariff. If EDF is charging £1,208 then you can expect all suppliers to charge around that amount. Checking with EDF on http://www.edfenergy.com/products-services/for-your-home/documents/product-terms/standard-variable.pdf they charge 18.9p per day then 17.46p/kWh on the normal units and 6.22p/kWh on the economy rate. As you said you estimate 60% usage then (365*.189)+(4000*.1746)+(6000*.0622) to total £1,140.


If you were to switch to OVO Energy it would cost you £21.00 per quarter plus 11.33p/kWh for all units. The total bill would then be (21*4)+(10000*.1133)=£1,217 ... For the extra £77 per year you can have heating whenever you want. You would also use less as you can turn it off when not needed and use the heating only when required. You also have a wide range of competitive tariffs to switch to in the future.