Lodger in caravan

Gypsysmum

Hi
We have allowed a recently homeless young lady to park a caravan on our field. She was already renting the field for her horse training business.
We have approached her to ask for rent and she has asked for a contract.
We do have a licence to run a caravan site but caravans must move on after 28 days.
My question is
Should we consider her a lodger bearing in mind we do not own the caravan she is living in?
Should we consider her a camper who is parking her caravan here and living in it for periods up to 28 days?
Should we consider her a tennant given that we do not own her accomodation?
Does the fact that she is running her business from the caravan muddy the waters?

Werdnal

I think your first call should be to the local council planning department. Siting a caravan for permanent residence requires planning permission and without it, you should not grant any agreement to this "tenant" which you will be unable to fulfil. Whether you have a caravan license or not, 28 days "holiday" style accomodation is not the same as 24/7 residential, and you would be the ones in breach of planning regs if you allow her to stay on your land. Grant her any sort of agreement, council throws caravan off your land, she can sue you for failing to fulfil the agreement!

A lodger shares the property you live in, so it she is occupying a self-contained caravan, separate from your home, there is no way she is a lodger!

If she has supplied the caravan, I hardly think you can class her as a tenant either! You can charge ground rent for the pitch and a contribution to services at the most!

Fire_Fox

At present she is a temporary resident/ visitor/ customer not a lodger or tenant. Agree you need to speak to the Planning department, you should not be preparing contracts when you don't have the right to have caravans permanent on the site. If you cannot get a change you will need to write to her and ask her to move on at the end of the 28 days.

Davesnave

As above, none of the definitions of landlord/tenant or lodger apply.

Depends where you are, but in many places one of your neighbours will shop you to the council, because you are breaking the conditions attached to your running the site. This will be especially true if its normal running affects anyone living nearby.

I'd set a deadline for an end to the arrangement, and I wouldn't accept a penny for 'rent' beyond what is normally paid, or you'll be setting yourself up for potentially big trouble.

While the lady may be homeless it's not your job to remedy that, nor will it be a bundle of fun for her, if the coming winter turns out to be as bad as some of those we've had recently!

Fire_Fox

And don't be guilt tripped about her being homeless, just direct her to the charity Shelter. If she is on a low income she should be able to get a room in a shared house and claim housing benefit.

SailorSam

Is it a bit similar to a story on the news during the week were a woman (you could call her a gypsy) bought a field in 'green-belt land' and put a caravan on it to live in. The Council are trying to get it removed.

propertyman

I'd think about the licence or lease for the field being granted for her horse riding business and subject to planning permission maintaining an office on site. That it was cheaper to buy a caravan...

It depends on the planning for the office, and I am afraid I haven't done rural since the 1980's ! Take a look at your Council website for local plan and land use.

I do struggle with the idea that a person, prepared to get by independently on their hard work, and live for now in a caravan, should give it all up and claim.

Gypsysmum

I am pretty sure that you are allowed to have someone living in a caravan on your property without planning consent as long as they use a "service" from the house. This means water, electric or have meals, do their washing etc. It comes under them living in "an extension" of the main house and not a seperate home. Only if they set up a self contained caravan would we need planning permission. Lots of farmers etc do this for their workers.
So assuming we are not falling foul of the planning regs I understand from the answers that she is not a tennant and not a lodger so she must be staying on the campsite and so must vacate every 28 days. She does have family in the area so I suppose she could go there for short periods.

Next we come to the business side of things. I know nothing about running a business from home so where do we stand on that one? Will my address go down as a business and, if so, does that have capital gains tax (or any other) implications if we come to sell?

Fire_Fox

Gypsysmum wrote: »

I am pretty sure that you are allowed to have someone living in a caravan on your property without planning consent as long as they use a "service" from the house. This means water, electric or have meals, do their washing etc. It comes under them living in "an extension" of the main house and not a seperate home. Only if they set up a self contained caravan would we need planning permission. Lots of farmers etc do this for their workers.
So assuming we are not falling foul of the planning regs I understand from the answers that she is not a tennant and not a lodger so she must be staying on the campsite and so must vacate every 28 days. She does have family in the area so I suppose she could go there for short periods.

Next we come to the business side of things. I know nothing about running a business from home so where do we stand on that one? Will my address go down as a business and, if so, does that have capital gains tax (or any other) implications if we come to sell?

IMO don't be pretty sure or assume, please contact Planning at the local council to clarify. There are likely to be rules about how long until she can return for another 28 days or how many days a year the site can be occupied. Also ask them about guests/ visitors/ temporary residents/ customers carrying out business activities whilst on site.

This is the 'House Buying, Renting & Selling' board: there is a 'Small Business' board tho http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=27
I wonder if she isn't running a business from home given that your site is not her permanent home, but you need to clarify all this with authorities like HMRC, don't rely on unqualified people on a forum. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/businesses/ Do you know what postal address she is using for her business, perhaps a relatives?

Werdnal

OP, You seem to have contradicted yourself a little in the reply above. There may be a precident for farmers to allow "workers" to live on their land (not sure if this is true), but this person is not working for you - they are running a business on your land.

There was a situation next door to me a few years ago - my neighbour's elderly wife was terminally ill and his son wanted to install a caravan on the land they own, beside the house, so he could stay and help care for her in her last months. They own several acres, with no neighbouring properties (other than us), nothing overlooking them and therefore no-one to object. They applied for permission, and even though they had clear and valid grounds, and it was only going to be a temporary arrangement for as long as the old lady lived, it was refused.

Please don't just assume everything is OK, as if this person is already homeless, and council do enforce removal of the caravan, she is going to be homeless all over again, due to your assumptions!

Gypsysmum

propertyman wrote: »

I'd think about the licence or lease for the field being granted for her horse riding business and subject to planning permission maintaining an office on site. That it was cheaper to buy a caravan...

It depends on the planning for the office, and I am afraid I haven't done rural since the 1980's ! Take a look at your Council website for local plan and land use.

I do struggle with the idea that a person, prepared to get by independently on their hard work, and live for now in a caravan, should give it all up and claim.

I agree, which is why we allowed her to come here. It was her boyfriend that caused them to become homeless and there is a child involved. She is a really hardworking young lady and we feel that she just needs a helping hand at this time in her life. Having said that we are not blind to all the pitfalls.