What is definition of bedroom? I say 4 bed, agent says 5 bed HMO.

athina_2

Hi, my husband and I have a 4 bedroom house with 2 reception rooms downstairs. We have council permission to knock through the wall to make 1 large reception but will do this at a later date once we move back in.

We want to let the house for 12 months & have registered with a letting agent but the manager insists on it being a 5 bed house and I can only let to families otherwise it will be an HMO. No matter how much I re-iterate that it is a 4 bed, 2 reception house, he is having none of it.

I really want to stay advertised with this agent as it's a chain and they get a huge amount of footfall and they rent their properties extremely quickly to the sharers market. We live in London and there are far more sharers than families looking to rent 4 bedroom houses so I feel they are really restricting the speed and value at which to let the house.

Sure, I could rent to 4 sharers & they could without telling me move a 5th into the reception room but surely that would be the same as a 3 bed house and everyone moving their boyfriend / girlfriend in hence making it an HMO?

So is there a legal definition that I can argue with the manager that I have a 4 bed house, not 5 bed?

PasturesNew

A bedroom is a room. Therefore you house has 6 rooms. Therefore 1 can be a reception/living and 5 can be bedrooms. For HMO this is commonplace. How many rooms you put a bed in and call a bedroom is a matter for you.

For LHA/benefits purposes it'd be a 5-bed.

You can call it what you like, you couldn't stop a tenant putting 2 sets of bunk beds in the 2nd reception for 4 of their kids....

Fire_Fox

Bedrooms can be on the ground floor, and often are in shared houses or HMOs. Contact your local council about their definition of an HMO and what they deem to be a bedroom because theirs is the only definition than matters to you. Also ask what they do if tenants move in additional persons without the landlords knowledge. It could cost you thousands of pounds if you fall foul of this legislation - sounds like you have a responsible letting agent there.

athina_2

Thanks for this. I had a look at the council website and it only refers to the number of unrelated people living in the house, not the number of bedrooms.

anselld

The agent works for you. Just instruct them how you wish the property to be marketed and what your tenant criteria are.

00ec25

athina wrote: »

Thanks for this. I had a look at the council website and it only refers to the number of unrelated people living in the house, not the number of bedrooms.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make in your OP :huh:

do you want to let it out as 4 individual bedrooms? If so then it will be an HMO, but not one which carries a mandatory licensing requirement because I asume it is not 3 storeys???
That does not mean that it may not need to be licensed at all or that it can escape meting the many safety requirments of a HMO. Your local council may have its own "selective" licensing rules under which an HMO can be formed with only 4 or even 3 households as it is at the discretion of your council what they do
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/34/contents

an HMO is defined by the number of occupants, the number of households those occupants form and the fact that they share one or more basic facilities.
Where there are 5 occupants with minimum 2 hoiseholds in a 3 storey building it is a mandatory HMO with huge (criminal) fines if convicted. Below that selective licensing may apply


So it would appear that your LA is simply warning you of the dangers of getting into HMO territory rather than a "simple" let to a single household i.e as a (multi bedroom) family property. As Firefox said, sounds like your LA is on the ball

theartfullodger

Regardless of 4 or 5 bedrooms it MAY be a HMO - depending on occupants.

Eg if all one family, not a HMO, if 4 unrelated not-partners persons a HMO.

If HMO it may or may not be licensable - check with your local council.

In Scotland 3 people in a bungalow if unrelated & not sh++going will need a license.

For what is a bedroom see Shelter on overcrowding.

The agent is clearly an ignorant, obstinate buffoon: Thus handle all further dealings with them on that basis. I.e. I would not trust them to get anything right, particularly paperwork.

Cheers!

Slinky

If this is your home you are intending to move back into, do you really want it being a HIMO for a year, regardless of the extra money? IMO it's liable to suffer a lot more wear and tear with sharers than with a responsible family able to pay a large rent. I would insist your agent markets it as a family home and doesn't rent to sharers, even if you get a bit less rent for it.

We had a family home along our street turned into an unlicensed HIMO for a few months. It was a nightmare. Cars parked all over the place, rubbish in thefront garden, arguing tenants, Police including the Police helicopter hovering overhead at 2.30am one night............ In the end the owners kicked all the people out and we had a normal family move in for about 3 years. Sadly they've just bought somewhere and moved out and it's empty again. I really hope the owners don't go down the HIMO route again.

athina_2

The house is 3 storey because we had a loft conversion done. Just to clarify, I am looking to let under one contract either to a group of friends 4 sharers) or a family.

For arguements sake, surely if we were to put 4 sharers in, put a clause in the contract only the people named on the contract can live there and stipulate no subletting, if they were to move a 5th/6th person in the how can either the agent or owner be held liable for that?

If HMO licensing fines were the case regardless of whether or not they had permission for 5+ people to be in the house, sharers would never be able to rent anywhere that was 3 storey and had 4 bedrooms with a living room in case they turned the living room into a bedroom.

Tigsteroonie

anselld wrote: »

The agent works for you. Just instruct them how you wish the property to be marketed and what your tenant criteria are.

^^ This.

Surely it is up to you as to how the house is marketed? Sounds like you want to market a 4bed, 2recept, home. Doesn't matter if it is let to a couple who want a lot of spare rooms or a family.

Agent would probably get more commission from it being a HMO but it's your house, let it how you want.

theartfullodger

Problem is athina even if contract says only 4 named, if they later get someone else in & you become aware of that then it becomes a licenseable HMO in all of GB. So you'd need to take action, but evicting a tenant during fixed term for that sort of reason is probably nigh-on impossible. You would only not become aware if not regularly inspecting, which might have even worse consequences...

I had that situation with a house in Scotland.. and was thuswise advised by my solicitor...

You do realise...
a) Tenants do not have to leave when S21, S8 etc notices expire but only when bailiff walks up path with a possession order several months later...
b) Tenants do not always pay the rent or look after your investment...
c) "Rent insurance" is provided by people expert in finding ways not to pay out on a claim..
d) You should only rent out property if you have BOTH the financial AND emotional reserves to cope with the tenant (or letting agent) from hell who doesn't pay rent for 7 months (say) while you pay the mortgage & legal fees & repair fees: Repair fees?? Oh yes, or judge will decide you are an evil disrepairing landlord and allow tenant to stay longer...

Most years I make £££££ from my lettings but not all years....

Cheers!!