Council Repairs/Decent Homes Standard

wagtail

Hi
I would especially love to hear from anyone who works for a housing department or who has had tenant`s choice work carried out.
I am confused about when you are supposed to get a decent kitchen. Even the GOV website has 2 figures - 20 years and 30 years.
My kitchen is falling apart in places, they are saying that they will replace some units, missing drawers, taps, worktops and broken floor tiles. Of course they wont be able to match them up and I told them that I wasn`t happy and this was just a bodge up. We are disputing when the kitchen was last done but even on their figures it is 25 years, I think it`s more like 30 because they took over from another authority after boundary changes and my neighbours at the time I moved in told me when modernisation was done - they said early 80`s but I have to accept what the council are saying they have on their record.
The Manager seemed to be saying "is it worth doing this when it will all be replaced in another 5 years" but the surveyor wasn`t having any of it.
I am going to make a complaint because I havn`t got anything to lose by it but I just wondered if anyone had issues previously or knew anything I could put in my complaint that would help.
I think the work that they are going to do is daft when it will all be done under tenants choice in a few years and they don`t HAVE to wait for 30 years to replace a kitchen which is obviously not in a good state. It`s going to be functional, I accept that, but it`s going to be shoddy. Anyone had a kitchen replaced at less than 30 years?
I have done the bathroom myself, paying for shower fitted and full tiling, I am a good tenant, I pay full rent and I would have put a new kitchen in myself over the years if I could afford it.

Your thoughts appreciated.

Fire_Fox

As a tenant you are not in a position to decide on the decor, your landlord pays so your landlord chooses and the taxpayer stumps up the money. Since we are in a recession and council tax have been frozen this year it's hardly surprising the council are trying to be prudent with the limited funds they have available. Move out if you don't like it.

theartfullodger

Fire_Fox wrote: »

As a tenant you are not in a position to decide on the decor, your landlord pays so your landlord chooses..........

- not always with council tenancies...

I assume you are in England: If not please let us know (contracts may be different elsewhere...)

Which sort of council tenancy do you have?? - which of

Introductory council tenancies
.
Secure council tenancies
.
Demoted council tenancies
.
Flexible council tenancies

- please??

I will assume you have a “Secure Tenancy” (it will state what sort on your tenancy agreement – let us know if what you have is different..)

Regarding decoration/repairs the rules are likely to be different from private tenancies.. see..
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/council_tenancies/secure_council_tenancies#3

Who is responsible for repairs?
.
The council should give you information about what repairs you are responsible for, which usually includes internal decoration and putting right any damage you cause. They are usually responsible for most other repairs, including any problems with the roof, guttering, windows, doors and brickwork. They also have to ensure that the plumbing, gas and electricity are working safely.
.
If you have a repair problem, report it to the council immediately. They should have a 24-hour service for emergencies and proper procedures for carrying out any work involved. If the repairs aren't carried out, or are done badly, get advice. It may be possible to force the council to do the work needed or get it done yourself and claim compensation for the cost. Be careful though - you have to follow the correct procedure. You should not stop paying the rent as you could risk being evicted.
.
If you want to make improvements to your home, you have to get written permission from the council first. They can't refuse certain improvements without a good reason

---so it may well be that you are responsible for internal decoration etc.. What does your tenancy agreement say on the subject??

When you wrote to the council (yes, WRITE!!! - keep a copy) requesting your kitchen be replaced what reply did you get??

What does your council website say about repairs, decoration & replacement kitchens??

That a kitchen is 5, 10, 20, 30, 50 years old does not necessarily make it not fit-for-purpose: In what way is your kitchen not performing as a “kitchen” currently, please - I realise there are problems but is that stopping you, say, cooking and washing-up?? (our kitchen must be 40+ years old, has faults, but we still use it - but then the wife owns the place... and it's our money we would be spending...)

Cheers!!

wagtail

Fire_Fox wrote: »

As a tenant you are not in a position to decide on the decor, your landlord pays so your landlord chooses and the taxpayer stumps up the money. Since we are in a recession and council tax have been frozen this year it's hardly surprising the council are trying to be prudent with the limited funds they have available. Move out if you don't like it.

Nice person- and my council tax wasn`t frozen, and council tax is nothing to do with rent.

wagtail

theartfullodger wrote: »

- not always with council tenancies...

I assume you are in England: If not please let us know (contracts may be different elsewhere...)

Which sort of council tenancy do you have?? - which of
- please??

I will assume you have a “Secure Tenancy” (it will state what sort on your tenancy agreement – let us know if what you have is different..)


---so it may well be that you are responsible for internal decoration etc.. What does your tenancy agreement say on the subject??

When you wrote to the council (yes, WRITE!!! - keep a copy) requesting your kitchen be replaced what reply did you get??

What does your council website say about repairs, decoration & replacement kitchens??

That a kitchen is 5, 10, 20, 30, 50 years old does not necessarily make it not fit-for-purpose: In what way is your kitchen not performing as a “kitchen” currently, please - I realise there are problems but is that stopping you, say, cooking and washing-up?? (our kitchen must be 40+ years old, has faults, but we still use it - but then the wife owns the place... and it's our money we would be spending...)

Cheers!!

It is a secure tenancy (in England), I have lived here for 21 years.
I put my request in writing and got a call from Housing Manager to let me know he was coming round. He was trying to persuade the surveyor that it was a waste to replace so much of the kitchen and that it would be due to be replaced in a few years anyway, he was actually really nice.
Half of the kitchen is rotten, some units need replacing, plus the worktops and a lot of the broken floor tiles. The council are responsible for this and I am responsible for decoration.
My question really was about the decent homes standard, which was put in place in 2000, and how local authorities implement that.
Thanks for sensible comment.

Fire_Fox

wagtail wrote: »

Your thoughts appreciated.

Nice person- and my council tax wasn`t frozen, and council tax is nothing to do with rent.

It's selfish wanting the taxpayer to upgrade your kitchen in a recession instead of simply repairing, not really any nicer than my bluntness IMO. If you are in the 15% maybe focus on complaining to your ward councillors and MP about that and not your kitchen?

"More than four out of five local authorities are freezing council tax bills in April - but many people will still pay more because of charges levied by other bodies.

The Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy (CIPFA) says 85 per cent of councils in England are not increasing their portion of bills, which is what the government has requested.

But because bills also include charges levied by other bodies, like fire and police authorities, 43 per cent of households will see a small increase.

The Department for Communities and Local Government has made it clear that it expects councils to freeze their bills this year and has offered them funding to do so.

Local Government Secretary Eric Pickles has said councils have a "moral duty" to freeze their bills. CIPFA's survey shows most are doing this, but some authorities are not."
http://www.channel4.com/news/most-local-authorities-freeze-council-tax-bills

theartfullodger

Request a HHSRS inspection from environmental health

wagtail

Fire_Fox wrote: »

It's selfish wanting the taxpayer to upgrade your kitchen in a recession instead of simply repairing, not really any nicer than my bluntness IMO. If you are in the 15% maybe focus on complaining to your ward councillors and MP about that and not your kitchen?

Freezing council tax isn`t actually saving you money, it`s a loan to the council and will be added back on at a later date, so you have that to look forward to, I don`t.
Council tax is spent on police, fire, recycling, refuse collection and removal, schools, leisure centres, park and ride schemes, parks and open spaces, street cleaning, subsidising of public transport, tourism, museums, social housing grants, housing and council tax benefits, environmental health and food safety in pubs, restaurants and shops, planning services, support for voluntary groups, meals on wheels, facilities for young people, adapting homes for disabled people, play centres for children, cctv installation, sports facilities, issuing taxi licences, flood defences amongst others.
I have worked all my life, paid full rent and council tax all my life. About half of the rent I have paid for 21 years goes to pay for repairs and improvements (according to my councils own figures) of which I have had very little.
My kitchen is falling apart and I think it is false economy to replace half of it now and then rip the whole thing out in 5 years (which is what they are going to do) and replace the whole lot. The Housing Manager was in agreement but it wasn`t his decision.
Any money for repairs or replacement I have already paid for and is not coming out of any council tax budget, so IMHO you are totally on the wrong track and frankly you are not blunt but rude.
When I posted I was hoping I wouldn`t get any Daily Mail style anti-social housing replies so please keep that chip on your shoulder for some cause worthy of your unpleasant manner. I think this site was intended for people to give information and help to others and people like you have ruined it. Rant over, I will not reply to any more postings from you.

Fire_Fox

wagtail wrote: »

When I posted I was hoping I wouldn`t get any Daily Mail style anti-social housing replies so please keep that chip on your shoulder for some cause worthy of your unpleasant manner. I think this site was intended for people to give information and help to others and people like you have ruined it. Rant over, I will not reply to any more postings from you.

:rotfl: Try reading my posting history instead of dismissing based on YOUR prejudices. I support social housing for those in need, think the Daily Fail is only good for wrapping soiled nappies, have no problem with the council REPAIRING anything that is dilapidated only with your entitlement attitude over an upgrade. You have paid rent for a secure roof over your head not for a brand new kitchen in a recession.

Torry_Quine

Many people who own their homes have kitchens as old if not older and in a similar condition. Mine was fitted in the 70s.

squinty

Just for clarification here.

Council tax, like other taxation has little to do with Council Housing. Council Housing including managment, repairs and capital investment is funded from a seperate ring-fenced account called the Housing Revenue Account (HRA).

Last April the government introduced a new finance system for housing - without too many boring details this meant that instead of paying money each year to government the Councils needed to borrow money to buy themselves out. So instead of paying the government they now have to service a debt. (To be fair, some councils prior to the change did recieve money from Govt each year - and they recieved a payment from Govt when they left).

The outcome of this is that Councils for the first time in many years are more able to make longer term plans to invest in homes with reduced interference from Govt.

OP check if your Council has developed their Business Plan for the next 30 years, and if so when will your kitchen be replaced. If this is in the next year or 2 you may be better to wait for this scheme - this is because this could be a whole kitchen upgrade including wiring/plumbing etc rather than just replacing units. If this is also the case, you could ask them to replace some of the worst units on a temporary basis, perhaps recycling units from other properties

Artful is right - the condition of a kitchen alone would not be a Decent Homes failure see section 4 of the guidance at
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/pdf/138355.pdf

However, in my experience Artful is then wrong it is unlikley that a HHSRS inspection would help - as Councils will not usually take enforcment action against themselves.