Solar panels

Nine_Lives

Was having a discussion at work about these today. Love the idea of them myself. Some people think they look a bit unslightly. I've seen them on houses in the area & don't think they look that bad. The potential saving though is really appealing.

I guess it depends on your house size. I don't know what a standard semi would be, but that'd be what we'd be looking to move into next year.

I know what the pros are with these - big savings. What are the cons & how much can you be looking at shelling out to get it all installed? & moreso - how long are you likely looking at before you 'cut even'?

Sorry if i'm being vague, it's not on purpose - i'm no specialist in the field, so if i'm being wishy washy, then it's just exposing my lack of knowledge.

tlh858

Big savings - not so, since most of the money was due to the massive subsidy paid for electricity generated using the panels. Subsidy still exists, but is far less than it was.

Install cost - thousands of pounds.

Payback time - a decade or more, probably a lot longer now the subsidy has been slashed.
Without any subsidy, you will never recover the cost of the panels.

All of those adverts claiming they are an 'investment' are lies, since any money you spend on them is lost (unlike other investments), so the claims of 10% returns are nonsense.

pka_2

My parents had some installed on two properties just before the tariffs were lowered. Cost them 20k to install and in the first three months they got back circa £1500, which considering the carppy summer we had they're pretty chuffed with. You do need to be very mindful of which direction your roof faces though, as if it isn't directly south facing the panels aren't nearly as efficient.

T_T_2

tlh858 wrote: »

Big savings - not so, since most of the money was due to the massive subsidy paid for electricity generated using the panels. Subsidy still exists, but is far less than it was.

Install cost - thousands of pounds.

Payback time - a decade or more, probably a lot longer now the subsidy has been slashed.
Without any subsidy, you will never recover the cost of the panels.

All of those adverts claiming they are an 'investment' are lies, since any money you spend on them is lost (unlike other investments), so the claims of 10% returns are nonsense.

Whilst the tariff payments have dropped considerably, so too has the cost of PV panels. Add that to the fact that there are now more installers than there are customers the installation costs have dropped considerably too. So whilst PV may not be quite as attractive as it was, it is still viable if your roof has the correct aspect and angle. I wouldn't write off PV just yet.

There are alternatives however. Biomass boilers are growing in popularity with the introduction of the RHI (renewable heat incentive). The first phase for commercial installations is already in effect and the domestic phase is due to come online shortly.

Nine_Lives

Thanks for another angle on it guys. Sounds like the chances are it wouldn't be worth it.

llandyrnog

Of course there is the option of using one of the Free Solar Panel Companies that exist. They supply and fix the panels on your roof for a period of 25 yrs for free ! They get the Feed in Tarrif payments while you get the free electricity. I think there is a very long thread about this on the Green section of the forum. Take a look and carefully weigh up the options. Ask the companies if you are able to view and speak to clients

MX5huggy

It's still worth it

http://www.solarguide.co.uk/solar-pv-calculator?sc_form_type=2#bestresult

skivenov

From what I've read of the figures, they don't take into account the useful life of the panels. I've heard various answers to how long they last, and it's generally about the 20 year mark. So if they've had the feed in for the first 25 years, all you're left with is a set of knackerred panels on your roof.

Also got to factor in you'll need your roof retiled at the end of their useful life.

To me, the only ones that make sense are the ones that heat your water up.

ukjoel

T_T wrote: »

Whilst the tariff payments have dropped considerably, so too has the cost of PV panels. Add that to the fact that there are now more installers than there are customers the installation costs have dropped considerably too. So whilst PV may not be quite as attractive as it was, it is still viable if your roof has the correct aspect and angle. I wouldn't write off PV just yet.

There are alternatives however. Biomass boilers are growing in popularity with the introduction of the RHI (renewable heat incentive). The first phase for commercial installations is already in effect and the domestic phase is due to come online shortly.

I have heard a whisper there may be some serious govt subsidies on these particularly for people currently using oil powered heating.

paulmapp8306

Solar PV pannels are not worht it at all - in their current state. I say this as a technician whos done a lot of investigation (NOT using hype).

The issues are:

1. Cost - PV pannels are still WAY too expensive. They coat a tiny fraction of what they sell for to actually make.

2. Efficiency. Currently PVs are verry inefficient - in that that ammount of the suns energy they catually convert to electricity is small - circa 15-20% at best, providing your pannels face in exactly the right place.

3. Feed in Tarrifs. These are what povided the most income, however the power companies lobbied the goivernment and won. They argue that they charge areound 12p per KWh yet the FITs (so what they pay the pannel owner) was up att 40p As a result FITs are being reduced every 6 months and will eventually dissapear. What that means is the only benefits you will get are free electric when the sun shines, and you will get paid at the same rate you pay per unit for nay that gets fed it - and probably less (as the power companies have to fund maintenance).

4. Pay back tiemes. Current payback times are around 17 years and getting longer as FITs reduce. Thats why companies that provide free PVs bt own and maintain the pannels, (but pocket all the FITs) are dissapearing - its just not worth it any more.

5. Useage patterns. The VAST majority or power used in a typical house is when the suns not shining - or at least not as powerfull. That is the evening/dinner time. The most electric is generated in the middle if the day. With FITs at their peak you could save a fortune, as you supplied power at 40p per unit in the daytime, and used it at 12p in the evening. As FITs reduce, those proffits are dissapearing and eventually the only befits will be the free elec you use during the daylight hours.

6. Linked to the above - a typical PV array is 4Kw. Its quite possible for you to use this much power at any one time on a house (admittedly for short periods). A decent elec shower for instance is 8-9Kw, so your PV array supplies only half the required power. Kettles are around 3-4Kw so you could cover that, provided nothing else in the house is on.

THE GOOD NEWS.

Well - yes there is some, but its a way off. As aways thge cost of new technologies reduce - and the same is true of PV. As the cost of pannels reduce they will become more viable. Also the tech will get better. Its theoretically possible for PVs to get to around 80% efficient, providing more power per pannel. In the future, it may be possible to pay half as much as you pay now for an array providing 4 times the power. That will cover most households daytime useage, and put enough back into the system to cover MOST of their evening/night time costs (and there may well be suitable storeage solutions aailable by then as well - meaning you store your daytime generated power for use at night). A fully workable, efficent solar solution for domestic use is still a couple of decades away at least.

macman

OP, are you talking about solar hot water, or solar PV? Different things.