Question about fines (non-parking)

halibut2209

Just a wonderment really. We say here that only the police, courts, and councils can issue fines and penalties.

So how come we are always hearing about footballers being fined 2 weeks wages or more. Wouldn't that be a penalty (no pun intended). I grant that they may well have it in their contracts that they will accept disciplinary action from their clubs, but wouldn't that be an unfair term?

Crabman

According to the following document (see P2) unfair terms don't apply to non-consumer contracts, e.g. employment:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/unfair_contract_terms/oft143.pdf

bargepole

halibut2209 wrote: »

Just a wonderment really. We say here that only the police, courts, and councils can issue fines and penalties.

So how come we are always hearing about footballers being fined 2 weeks wages or more. Wouldn't that be a penalty (no pun intended). I grant that they may well have it in their contracts that they will accept disciplinary action from their clubs, but wouldn't that be an unfair term?

The word "fines" is loosely banded about, mainly by journalists, to include things which are not fines at all.

In your footballers example, that would actually be a deduction of wages authorised by their employment contract.

halibut2209

@crabman That seems to answer that, thanks

But does that mean that employers can still impose penalties on their staff? Unfair contracts is one thing, but surely that doesn't mean that you can act unlawfully towards your employees.

@bargepole

But FIFA often fines/"fines" associations for things such as crowd trouble. And the FA fines/"fines" clubs for failure to keep players under control etc. That's not an employment issue.

halibut2209

"that would actually be a deduction of wages authorised by their employment contract."

That's an interesting one, seeing as we often get cases about the NHS. Why can't the NHS "deduct wages" for parking charges then?

bargepole

halibut2209 wrote: »

@crabman That seems to answer that, thanks

But does that mean that employers can still impose penalties on their staff? Unfair contracts is one thing, but surely that doesn't mean that you can act unlawfully towards your employees.

@bargepole

But FIFA often fines/"fines" associations for things such as crowd trouble. And the FA fines/"fines" clubs for failure to keep players under control etc. That's not an employment issue.

Employers can only make deductions from wages when it is mandated by the employment contract, or by the employee signing something to authorise a specific deduction. Making an arbitrary deduction without authorisation would fall foul of the Employment Rights Act (1996).

This is why the NHS can't make deductions for parking charges, unless it was written into employment contracts, but I couldn't see the unions agreeing to that.

Again, "fines" by FIFA or the FA are not real fines, but are mandated by the contractual agreements between clubs and governing bodies.

halibut2209

But that's not employment. Are you saying that penalties are legal with a signature?

bargepole

halibut2209 wrote: »

But that's not employment. Are you saying that penalties are legal with a signature?

In commercial contracts, yes. A construction company will sign a contract with the Highways Agency to build a stretch of road, at an agreed price to be completed by a certain date. The contract might stipulate that, if it overruns, they will be penalised by £10,000 per day until completed. This is quite normal, and standard practice.

halibut2209

So what's the difference between that and a contract between the NHS and one of its employees stating that a deduction of up to 2 weeks wages can be made for parking without displaying a permit?

bargepole

halibut2209 wrote: »

So what's the difference between that and a contract between the NHS and one of its employees stating that a deduction of up to 2 weeks wages can be made for parking without displaying a permit?

Because an NHS employee would be mad to agree to such a contract, and even if they did, a deduction on that scale would most likely bring the employee's total pay below minimum wage, and the NHS trust into big trouble.

halibut2209

So minimum wage aside, that's quite acceptable then.

What if it's not the contract of employment, but the contract for a parking permit? That's still between employer and employee.

EDIT: And I used the "two weeks" as an extreme as that is the maximum "fine" a club can give a football player. Replace that with £100 if you wish