Pin number changed without my knowledge

agrinnall

Those posters who believe the banks store PINs are incorrect, what they have is the ability to check via an algorithm whether the PIN that has been entered is correct, and to issue a replacement PIN mailer if requested.

What they do store is the PIN Offset when a PIN change is requested (the difference between the original and new PINs) and I believe they should also have the date and time when a PIN change was requested. Because I don't think there is any way to do a PIN change without the card being present (because the offset has to be written to the chip) if a change has been made that suggests your card has been cloned, in which case you should get it cancelled and a new one issued straight away.

Ames

Thanks for all the replies.

No-one else has access to the card, so it can't have been changed by someone else. It's the only card for the account, and the only card I have, so I wasn't putting in a wrong pin.

I tried twice in Morrisons and it came up 'authorization failed'. I tried twice in the bank and the teller said that it was saying wrong pin.

It sounds though as if it's a problem with the card itself, or account, if no-one's been able to change it? I don't think it's been cloned as there's not been any activity on the account that wasn't me.

The teller said there was no suspicious activity.

I'll go to a different branch tomorrow, by the sounds of it just sending me a new pin wont sort it out. I'd tried over the weekend to buy something online (so no pin) and it was saying authorization failed then too, but I thought it was the shop's system playing up.

I can't use it at an ATM either, even to look at my balance, as it comes up unauthorized there too.

I need to go anyway, with ID, so I can get some money until the new pin comes.

dzug1

agrinnall wrote: »

Those posters who believe the banks store PINs are incorrect, what they have is the ability to check via an algorithm whether the PIN that has been entered is correct, and to issue a replacement PIN mailer if requested.

.

So how come my MBNA credit card PIN can be displayed online by going through a few security questions?

dalesrider

Ames wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies.

No-one else has access to the card, so it can't have been changed by someone else. It's the only card for the account, and the only card I have, so I wasn't putting in a wrong pin.

I tried twice in Morrisons and it came up 'authorization failed'. I tried twice in the bank and the teller said that it was saying wrong pin.

It sounds though as if it's a problem with the card itself.

Not got chocolate on the chip have you.... Stopped a staff member from using their card once :rotfl:

TBH. I would be asking for the card to be replaces as damaged. As you say sounds like a duff chip.
Try rubbing it with something soft to clean it and then try a ATM.
Morrisons does seem to have a lot of issues with reading cards. Mrs used to fail more often than not in there. So we stopped using them and have never had a issue since, go figure....

dzug1.
MBNA. Must have something built into their systems that allows it to generate the pin. If I remember it only shows one number at a time.
To me it is a very dangerous system. If someone has their wallet stolen and has login details in there as well. You can guess the rest.....
All you need to know is that staff cant see a PIN. Or we could tell a customer what it was if they had a problem.

agrinnall

dzug1 wrote: »

So how come my MBNA credit card PIN can be displayed online by going through a few security questions?

I can only assume it's what dalesrider says, if MBNA were to know or store the PIN anywhere it would be totally against industry standards, and in breach of the VISA rules. I'd also agree that it's potentially a very dangerous facility to offer, which is why every card issuer I've ever been involved with requires either a new PIN to be issued or a replacement PIN mailer to be sent out if the cardholder forgets the original one.

Ames

Well I went into a different branch today, and spoke to someone who's been out of nappies for longer than six months. He said it's not that the pin's been changed, but that my chip has forgotten it. I should get a new pin within the next 5 days.

The card's only six months old, so I wonder how many more problems I'll have with the chip.

dalesrider

Ames wrote: »

Well I went into a different branch today, and spoke to someone who's been out of nappies for longer than six months. He said it's not that the pin's been changed, but that my chip has forgotten it. I should get a new pin within the next 5 days.

The card's only six months old, so I wonder how many more problems I'll have with the chip.

Well thats the best laugh I have had in ages...... I know panto season will soon be upon us......

I would ring and get your card replaced as damaged......

SnowTiger

Ames wrote: »

Well I went into a different branch today, and spoke to someone who's been out of nappies for longer than six months. He said it's not that the pin's been changed, but that my chip has forgotten it. I should get a new pin within the next 5 days.

The card's only six months old, so I wonder how many more problems I'll have with the chip.

So, basically the chip is damaged? A thread about nothing?

AdamJK_2

Ames wrote: »

Well I went into a different branch today, and spoke to someone who's been out of nappies for longer than six months. He said it's not that the pin's been changed, but that my chip has forgotten it. I should get a new pin within the next 5 days.

The card's only six months old, so I wonder how many more problems I'll have with the chip.

I find that quite amusing - the PIN is stored on both the mag stripe and the chip. If the chip 'forgot' the PIN then the next ATM you visited would update the chip (providing it offer PIN change facilities).

If the PIN had been changed by the bank then, so long as you hadn't visited an ATM in the meantime, your old PIN would have continued to work at chip & PIN point of sale until you visited an ATM.

The chip stores the PIN separate to the card and thus can only be updated at an ATM. When you pop your card into the merchant machine the machine asks the chip "is this number correct" and the chip gives either a "yes" or "no" response. The bank have no part in that process (otherwise offline trans wouldn't work).

Update the card at an ATM, if that doesn't work ask for a replacement card and the old marked as damaged. The older and more experienced individual in branch was doing what is commonly termed 'blowing smoke up your a$$' rather than solving the problem.

thenudeone

agrinnall wrote: »

I can only assume it's what dalesrider says, if MBNA were to know or store the PIN anywhere it would be totally against industry standards, and in breach of the VISA rules. I'd also agree that it's potentially a very dangerous facility to offer, which is why every card issuer I've ever been involved with requires either a new PIN to be issued or a replacement PIN mailer to be sent out if the cardholder forgets the original one.

I don't buy any of this.

It's glaringly obvious that the banks must have a record of the PIN in some format.

I can see my PIN on a web screen. How can the bank "generate the PIN" to show on the website without having a record of the PIN itself? The record may be heavily encrypted but it must start with actual PIN. Otherwise please please explain which branch of hyper-physics allows the bank to correctly display my card's PIN (which was chosen by me) without them ever being aware of it?

If the actual PIN was only ever stored on the card, then when the card expires, how can the bank issue a replacement card WHICH HAS THE SAME PIN AS THE ORIGINAL CARD (even if the customer changed it) without knowing what the PIN is?

Without magic, both of these things would be impossible.

Whether the facility to view PINs online is sensible or secure, and whether it's against VISA/MC rules, are both debatable, but what is not debatable is that the banks MUST have a record the PIN.