Holiday Property Bond

budgetflyer

Seronera wrote: »

Must have been a belter then. Rather puts the HPB in the shade..;)

Seronera

Yes it does, doesn't it;) I got out cashflow positive

ChrisM_2

Well, I'm off to El Pueblito de Alfaix tomorrow, looking forward to it very much. I hesitate to believe there is anything too worrying about HPB's finances - even though they seem to be throwing even more money than usual into advertising at the moment. New sites coming along all the time and I imagine they would be 'consolidating' rather than growing if there was anything to worry about.

Seronera

ChrisM wrote: »

Well, I'm off to El Pueblito de Alfaix tomorrow, looking forward to it very much. I hesitate to believe there is anything too worrying about HPB's finances - even though they seem to be throwing even more money than usual into advertising at the moment. New sites coming along all the time and I imagine they would be 'consolidating' rather than growing if there was anything to worry about.

So you would be happy with a letter giving you three weeks notice to cough up money or else..which is what is happening to 21% of bondholders. Have you seen the letter? It may be couched in nice comforting terms, but the message is clear enough...We want more money off you, but please don't panic.

Even if its not your turn if you are a Diamond bond holder, what does this tell you? Having worked in the financial services industry and seen the effects of high annual management charges on the capital value of investment bonds I regret to tell you that this is very much your problem as well, or it will be one day.

I think the fundamental problem is that the Bond was established when the financial outlook and returns on investment were in a different league compared with today, and as such management charges were similarly set high. Today we have low returns, but still the same high charges, and the investment model is struggling. This is one of the reasons why 'broker bonds' were knocked on the head by the FSA..they double charged and eroded capital values....but even with the double charging broker bonds, charges were no greater than the 2.8% charged by IOM assurance on HPB. Also in HPB as the portfolio is geared to income production, it must have a lot of fixed interest investments. The capital values on these will be murdered by 2.8%....and wait for it..the other thing that will kill fixed interest investments is inflation....which at 4.5% is looking decidedly dodgy. This makes the outlook quite a lot worse IMHO.

Have a nice holiday by the way. I'm sure HPB is not in dire straights at all. It has no borrowings and is asset rich, if a bit cash poor in parts apparently, but I think the current move stinks actually.

Seronera

Seronera

budgetflyer wrote: »

Yes it does, doesn't it;) I got out cashflow positive

Touche.....but I bet you've spent it:D Even with my increasingly worthless HPB I will be able to screw a few holidays out of it yet.......i hope.....maybe:mad:

Seronera

pharmprof

Seronera
Interesting to hear your financial perspective. I just learned you can't cash in the units till 6 months after you had a holiday and if there is a rush to sell they can delay sale by 12 months and sell at the then price.

Looks like they are ranking up the sums involved to £5000 and manitenance charge to under £30

Now HPB website says
A minimum initial investment of just £5,000 and an RPI linked quarterly fee of under £30 (including VAT) enable Bondholders to book any available HPB property when they choose.
"family and friends are entitled to use any HPB property at any time rent free !!! you won't pay a penny in rent for your holiday - just a no-profit user charge??
All other management costs are met from the quarterly fee and that part of the HPB funds invested in securities. Hmmm!

My small print says the charges were 3.25% - 2% to HPB Gibraltar .75% to the Isle of Man Assurance and .25% each to securities managers and Trustees. In addition they take unspecified commission on property purchase and upgrading.

The company complexity is partly covered by this


HPB's assets are controlled by an independent Trustee, HSBC Trustee (Guernsey) Limited which is registered at Park Place, Park Street, St Peter Port, Guernsey, Channel Islands, GY1 1EE. The Securities Manager is Baring Asset Management Limited registered at 155 Bishopsgate, London, EC2M 3XY.
The HPB "family" includes HPB Management Limited (HPBM) registered company number 1581593, of HPB House, Newmarket, Suffolk, CB8 8EH which is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. HPBM is the main UK agent for HPB, itself issued by HPB Assurance Limited (HPBA) which is registered in the Isle of Man and authorised there by the Insurance & Pensions Authority. Accordingly, holders of policies issued by this company will not be protected by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme if the company becomes unable to meet its liabilities to them. Instead Isle of Man compensation arrangements apply to new policies. There is also the Property Manager, HPB Management (International) Limited (HPBMI) registered at Ground Floor, Neptune House, Marina Bay, PO Box 67, Gibraltar.
HPBM, HPBA and HPBMI are part of the HPB Marketing Group and are not independent of each other. HPBM is able to advise only on HPBA's products.

terryw

Companies should not be answering questions on this forum unless they're a large household name with a huge numbers of customers and companies that have been mentioned in the MSE guides or non-profit advice agencies we have a relationship with. If you feel there's an abuse issue relating to your company that you'd like to reply to, please email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com so that the MSE Team can establish that you are genuinely from the company you say you are

Large companies and those mentioned by MoneySavingExpert that have been given company representative status will be listed below with a link to their profile.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/781221

MSE members try hard to keep the forums spam-free and within the rules.

pharmprof

terryw wrote: »

Companies should not be answering questions on this forum unless they're a large household name with a huge numbers of customers and companies that have been mentioned in the MSE guides or non-profit advice agencies we have a relationship with. If you feel there's an abuse issue relating to your company that you'd like to reply to, please email so that the MSE Team can establish that you are genuinely from the company you say you are

Large companies and those mentioned by MoneySavingExpert that have been given company representative status will be listed below with a link to their profile.

MSE members try hard to keep the forums spam-free and within the rules.

Unsure if this comment relates to my post - but I have nothing to do with HPB was merely citing current information relevant to the earlier discussions and to let people see the complexity of the operation.

terryw

pharmprof wrote: »

Unsure if this comment relates to my post - but I have nothing to do with HPB was merely citing current information relevant to the earlier discussions and to let people see the complexity of the operation.

It does not refer to your post. The post(s) to which I referred has been removed by the board guide.

Seronera

terryw wrote: »

It does not refer to your post. The post(s) to which I referred has been removed by the board guide.

As any response by the management of HPB on here seems to be breaking forum rules as they have not registered, and is being removed (which is fair enough..rules is rules) then can I suggest you pop over to the tripadvisor.com forum if you have an interest, where this discussion is ongoing and the management have responded. They are apparently considering their response to a number of the criticisms being made of their proposals.
I'l come back with a link.
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowForum-g1-i10700-Timeshares_Vacation_Rentals.html


TerryW. just for your information, there are nearly 50,000 bondholders, and although not huge, HPB is still a sizeable operation. I respect the rules on here, but having seen previous uncomplementary comment by you about HPB I'd just politely request that you play with as straight a bat as you can, as peoples saving are potentially at risk and its in everybodies interests that the current situation has a resolution that all parties can get behind, so that bondholders confidence can be restored, and they can continue to enjoy their HPB holidays...and no I don't work for them in any capacity whatsoever.

Seronera

[Deleted User]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

plenty of first time users on this particular thread

I wonder why??

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: