Engine Management Advice (long post)

DB_XIII

Hi,

I'll start with the car:-

2005 (05 plate) Kia Rio 1.3LE Petrol
43,000 Miles
Full Service History
1 Previous Owner

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I purchased this car 8 months ago, second hand.

I test drove the car and had a friend (Toyota Mechanic) look over it and confirm everything was fine, which it was so I purchased it.

I received a 1 month engine warranty included, the guy I brought the car from rang me at the end of that month to double check there were no issues and if he could help at all, at that time there were none and everything was great and we left it at that.

Around 6 weeks later I had the car serviced by a trusted mechanic local to my girlfriends in South Wales, the mechanic performed the service - spark plugs, oil & air filter & oil change etc. I had the car back the next day and went out for a drive, after approx 30 minutes the car started stalling and running rough at idle, needless to say the mechanic took the car back and had a look, he couldn't understand what was causing the problem and 're-did' the service, sadly to no avail.

We left to come home the day after, the mechanic advised the car was safe and needed the engine light to come on to check this further, when I got home (3 hour drive) my Toyota mechanic friend had a look at managed to get the engine light on but couldn't read the fault.

Anyway, I took it to Kia who ran a diagnostic and confirmed the fault was the Camshaft Position Sensor but couldn't rule out the ECU. I change the sensor to no avail. I then changed the Idle Control Valve which mended the fault 90% and the car no longer stalls but over revs and the engine light is on sending codes for the Cam Shaft Position Sensor and Idle Control Valve. Both of which have been replaced.

The MOT is up in April '13 and I'm worried the car will fail as the management light is on and I cannot seem to fix the fault.

Can any one advise on this? I am unsure where to go from here, the car is in daily use and causing me no issues at all except the over revving when started but as soon as I pull away the revs go back to normal. I've also changed the timing belt and water pump.

I am sorry for the long post, thanks.

James_Lahey

Wow! sounds like a lot of work to have been done on a relatively new car!

If you've done everything that Kia suggested could be causing the problem, I'd imagine your next step would be going back to them and insisting they sort this out and get the light reset for your peace of mind and MOT purposes.

DB_XIII

James_Lahey wrote: »

Wow! sounds like a lot of work to have been done on a relatively new car!

If you've done everything that Kia suggested could be causing the problem, I'd imagine your next step would be going back to them and insisting they sort this out and get the light reset for your peace of mind and MOT purposes.

Thank you for the reply, I didn't use genuine Kia parts so I'm slightly worried they may just fob me off due to this. Is there a way they can check if the fault is the ECU? As if they check the codes it will just come back as parts that have been replaced.

From what I've heard it won't be viable to replace the ECU if that's the problem.

James_Lahey

Sorry I have no idea about ECU's as I opt for older cars that I can tinker with myself without a special computer to plug them in to (although this is getting increasingly difficult nowadays!)

I'd imagine regardless of parts used Kia should take some responsibility for their product, whether or not they will is another matter!

According to this thread you won't fail MOT due to the light being on - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3040140

Best of luck getting it sorted.

nickcc

Usually the EML is triggered by emission faults, most often the O2 sensors in the Exhaust system. A good reader scanner should indicate where the fault is located. New sensors are fairly cheap around £30 and easy to fit.

forgotmyname

Coil pack issues are not uncommon. But battery voltage can cause similar issues as can incorrectly gapped spark plugs.

nickcc

forgotmyname wrote: »

Coil pack issues are not uncommon. But battery voltage can cause similar issues as can incorrectly gapped spark plugs.

But they usually affect the emissions so trigger the engine management light.

forgotmyname

I wonder if your friend triggered the light by unplugging the cam sensor. Which is why it showed only that fault.

I would expect the light with a misfire yes. But worth testing.

Also i would avoid the dealer who said they cant do anything without a fault light. They wont do anything unless the little box tells them to.

They will see a fault and not think what can cause that fault, Just rerplace the parts at random. Billing you each time.

The equipment they have WILL help diagnose your issue but it takes someone with a brain and not just a button pusher.

Got a real garage with real mechanics.

richard734

Kia/Hyundai share a lot of components.
The typical symptoms of a the crank sensor going would be car failing to start but will turn over.
For the Throttle Position Sensor (Sometimes called the idle sensor) The car will 'Hunt' or rev up and down at idle, or seem to momentarily 'stall' when cruising along for a while time. Both are typical failures with teh Hyundai Alpha and Beta designated engines, I dont know if these units are shared with Kia.

DB_XIII

richard734 wrote: »

Kia/Hyundai share a lot of components.
The typical symptoms of a the crank sensor going would be car failing to start but will turn over.
For the Throttle Position Sensor (Sometimes called the idle sensor) The car will 'Hunt' or rev up and down at idle, or seem to momentarily 'stall' when cruising along for a while time. Both are typical failures with teh Hyundai Alpha and Beta designated engines, I dont know if these units are shared with Kia.

Hi Richard,

This is exactly what is happening, the engine is 'hunting' as you mentioned, it no long cuts out after changing the idle sensor.

The revs are very random at idle, I have noticed the car tries to cut out if I hold the electric window controls.

Do you know of any resolution to this problem?

I need to sort this so I can sell it, the quotes I'm given at the moment would leave me with around a £1500 loss.

Sorry for the delayed response and thanks again.

richard734

Dont apologise, if you forgive me as well

New symptom, new 'possible' solution - Coil Packs - the electicery supply going through the cars system - Your comment about teh windows gives it away - on the Hyundai's it was turning the lights on

I want to quantify again, I have some very good knowledge around Hyudais, I am only assuming/guessing that Kia are sharing components. If you want a proper diagnosis go to a Kia main dealer and ask for a full diagnosis, if you talk nice to them, they often wont charge the £60 if they cant find the problem

Good news is, new coild packs are around £40 and can be fitted in 30 minutes by a confident amuater

if it was me, I would go with a Main Dealer supplied Coil Pack, and just to be sure another Dealer supplied TPS - change them myself and settle the most likely faults for <£100