Santander are changing their terms

Alanem

Santander are changing a raft of their terms and conditions from Jan 1 2013 and condition 9.7 (k) requires you "to take reasonable steps to keep your PIN or Personal Security Details unique to the accounts that you hold with us." Do all banks require this or is it another back alley for Santander to escape by if they learn you've used the same PIN somewhere else?

They are also rewriting condition 15 which seems to let them ride rough shod when they like.

I've already had loads of problems with them and but for their travel insurance I would have gone long ago...even that could be at risk now with these changes. I suggest you give them a read...not that you can do anything about it other than be aware!!

YorkshireBoy

Alanem wrote: »

Do all banks require this or is it another back alley for Santander to escape by if they learn you've used the same PIN somewhere else?

It's probably targeted at those who use account aggregator software (such as that provided by eWise)?

Although I'd have expected them to have had that covered in existing T&Cs for some time now, being as this software is not new.

Frogletina

Well, considering you have to keep your pin number to yourself and not disclose it to anyone I am not sure how Santander expect you to prove you have a different pin numbers for accounts with other banks or vice versa.

Can you imagine saying to Santander 'I only gave my Santander pin number to Lloyds to prove that my pin number with them is not the same'

:rotfl:

opinions4u

I suspect the unfair contracts legislation would rule those terms unacceptable if they are ever challenged in court.

Do I have to provide a different "mother's maiden name" to Santander then?

innovate

opinions4u wrote: »

I suspect the unfair contracts legislation would rule those terms unacceptable if they are ever challenged in court.

I would agree with that. Just because some words appear in a company's T&Cs doesn't make them law.

richardmk

Link
Using the term unique is pretty ambiguous to interpretation. It does say you must not have the same PIN on an account with another organisation. Nor does it say do not share you passwords and PIN numbers to allow access on the account. It is probably taken from the Spanish terms and has not translated very well to English!

JuicyJesus

innovate wrote: »

I would agree with that. Just because some words appear in a company's T&Cs doesn't make them law.

It makes them part of a legal agreement, mind you.

However, the only way they could enforce this and stay consistent with their own terms (and basic common sense) is to ask people "do you use the same PIN for any other cards you have" and if they say "yes" hold them liable for fraud. The issue is that this is moronic. Having the same PIN for more than one card is not going to make you any more likely to be defrauded, because any fraudster would still have to obtain that PIN somehow, and if you're taking proper precautions there shouldn't be an issue.

Trust Santander to devise something so utterly idiotic. "Value from ideas" my colon. I know of people who only stick with them because they make so many mistakes and have such poor service that compensation from them makes an excellent second income stream.

dalesrider

Alanem wrote: »

Santander are changing a raft of their terms and conditions from Jan 1 2013 and condition 9.7 (k) requires you "to take reasonable steps to keep your PIN or Personal Security Details unique to the accounts that you hold with us."

Do all banks require this or is it another back alley for Santander to escape by if they learn you've used the same PIN somewhere else?!

Of course your PIN is unique to your santander cards, as is your PIN to any other card.

Given a bank does not know what your PIN is, only when you have changed it. So there is no way they could know if ALL or ANY of your cards were the same PIN.
Unless you told them.

Not seen another bank with a clause like that. But feel that the more cards and diffrent PIN's people have the more likely they are to record them where a fraudster can get to them...

If they tried to use it as a excuse to avoid a payout FOS would rip them to shreads.:rotfl:

JuicyJesus

dalesrider wrote: »

If they tried to use it as a excuse to avoid a payout FOS would rip them to shreads.:rotfl:

My thoughts precisely.

So long as the PIN hasn't been divulged it shouldn't affect cardholder liability one iota.

BobQ

I was taken with new Santander condition:

9.7M Do not record your PIN or personal security details on any software (eg any save password prompts) which retains in automatically unless retaining your PIN or Personal Security details is a function of a banking service provided by us

I wondered if this applies to any encrypted file that you might have on a PC that is protected by its own password?

Another clause

Condition 32.3 "We will not be liable to you for any loss you may suffer if we disclose information in accordance with our legal obligations

What on earth does this excuse them from?

JuicyJesus

BobQ wrote: »

What on earth does this excuse them from?

Jesus Christ.

I suppose it *could* mean that if you suffer any loss because (say) they've had to shop you for laundering money, they won't be liable. But then I've never heard of drug dealers suing their banks because they got nicked.

I'm so glad I don't bank with that bunch of cretins.