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Selling a house with tenants in situ

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  • Wasim
    Wasim Posts: 8 Forumite
    Hi, the latter referred to your response G.M of 31st October 7.04pm meaning: I am the property owner and Landlord. I believe that the E.A has overstepped the mark by approaching my tenants prior to sale, harshly persuading them to sign a new tenancy agreement using their in-house rental agency and delaying the sale if the house due to their interests being primarily with: the buyer of my house who is buying it tenanted (using the EA to deal with both the sale and the tenancy), rather than acting on my behalf (they have delayed the sale due to this).
    I am considering reducing the commission due to them as a result.
    My question was: are there any legal documents to validate what they are doing, if they are acting correctly or if they are not?
    The EA have never given me any documentation explaining their procedure!

    Forever Grateful,
    W
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 15 November 2012 at 11:47AM
    The Estate Agent is...... an 'agent'. Their only role is to act on your behalf. And to do what you tell them to do.

    Normally your 'instructions' to them are listed in the contract you signed with them when you took them on.

    If they fail to do something that was in those instructions, or do something that was NOT in the instructions (unless the instructions give them flexible delegated authority) then they are in breach of your contract.

    Are the Estate Agents managing the sale for you also Letting Agents who manage the tenancy for you? If not, why are they involved with the tenants at all?

    The simple answer is that until the property sale is completed, YOU are the landlord, and the tenants are YOUR tenants. YOU therefore decide if/when you want to ask the tenants to sign a new tenancy agreement.

    It is nothing to do with the buyer (yet), or HIS Letting Agents.

    WRITE to your EA, instructing them very clearly not to contact your tenants about (x,y,z eg new tenancy agreement), but only to contact them about (a,b,c eg property repairs, boiler maintenance etc). Tell them to confirm receipt of your letter.


    edit: it might alo be a good idea to contact your tenants directly yourself, either by letter, phone or in person.

    Explain what is happening (you are selling the property to XXX, on or around December XXX.

    Also explain how this affects them
    * once the sale is complete, you and the new LL will both write to them to confirm, and they will then pay their rent to the new LL, or his agent, as instructed
    * their existing tenancy remains valid and continues
    * they do not need to sign a new tenancy agreement with the new LL if they do not wish to - they can continue the existing one (just with a newLL)
    * if they currently have a Fixed Term tenancy with you, this will continue to the end of the Fixed Term as before
    * if they currently have a Periodic (eg monthly) Tenancy with you, this continues, although of course the new landlord has the option to give two months notice (in the same way that You have that option at present - no change except name of landlord)
    * they continue to have the right to 'quiet enjoyment' of their home - so if they ask/tell the agent/new landlord not to come round (without an agreed appointmemt) he cannot come round

    You could also point them to the following post, or print it out for them!

    Ending/Renewing an AST (what happens when the Fixed Term ends?)(What is a Periodic Tenancy?)(How can a LL remove a tenant?)(How can a tenant end a tenancy?)
  • Wasim
    Wasim Posts: 8 Forumite
    Thank You so much G.M- you have been incredibly helpful and have confirmed a few of my suspicions. I'm glad that you have taken the time to offer some excellent advice to me!

    Forever Grateful
    W
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Wasim wrote: »
    Thank You so much G.M- you have been incredibly helpful and have confirmed a few of my suspicions. I'm glad that you have taken the time to offer some excellent advice to me!

    Forever Grateful
    W
    You're very welcome - glad if I helped.

    However for future reference, and for anyone else reading this, it helps if you give a full picture in your original post (who you are, what your exact problem is, the history etc).

    In this case it was not till your 6th post that I really understood what help/information you needed!
  • :D
    G_M wrote: »
    You're very welcome - glad if I helped.

    However for future reference, and for anyone else reading this, it helps if you give a full picture in your original post (who you are, what your exact problem is, the history etc).

    In this case it was not till your 6th post that I really understood what help/information you needed!

    totally agree G_M. I am relatively new to the forum and its quite funny to read people's posts summarizing their query in 2 sentences missing important details then sit back and and wait for detailed and professional response from forum users, Another extreme is then they start posting essay full of useless details so that forum readers are msiing on a main points or just give up reading till the end. An example is when they strat coping and pasting homebuyers report detailing all sorts of problems including 1 chipped tile in the bath and dirty mark on the wall...:eek:

    P.S. sorry couldnt resist:D
  • Fire_Fox
    Fire_Fox Posts: 26,026 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    MelaBella wrote: »
    :D

    totally agree G_M. I am relatively new to the forum and its quite funny to read people's posts summarizing their query in 2 sentences missing important details then sit back and and wait for detailed and professional response from forum users, Another extreme is then they start posting essay full of useless details so that forum readers are msiing on a main points or just give up reading till the end. An example is when they strat coping and pasting homebuyers report detailing all sorts of problems including 1 chipped tile in the bath and dirty mark on the wall...:eek:

    P.S. sorry couldnt resist:D

    I know what you mean, I do think tho it can be hard to see the wood for the trees when you are involved. I find it most difficult when the OP is rambling, you ask a clear list of questions and get another rambling response that doesn't even answer them! :eek:
    Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️
  • If you are selling a property with tenants in it do make sure that your solicitor is aware of this as the property must be sold without vacant posession. This must be specified in the contract before exchange. Also the terms of the tenancy (AST) should also be included in the contract ie amount of rent,deposit, term etc. At completion your tenants will have to sign a new AST with the new landlord (or their letting agent) and this should be on the same terms as previously unless the tenants and new landlord agree to something different than they had with you. Your own contract with your estate agent should include that the property is being marketed without vacant posession.
    Incidentally 'sitting tenant' refers to an old style long term tenancy of unfurnished property and is not the same thing as a tenant on an AST.
  • G_M
    G_M Posts: 51,977 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    If you are selling a property with tenants in it do make sure that your solicitor is aware of this as the property must be sold without vacant posession. This must be specified in the contract before exchange. Also the terms of the tenancy (AST) should also be included in the contract ie amount of rent,deposit, term etc. At completion your tenants will have to sign a new AST with the new landlord (or their letting agent) and this should be on the same terms as previously unless the tenants and new landlord agree to something different than they had with you. Your own contract with your estate agent should include that the property is being marketed without vacant posession.
    Incidentally 'sitting tenant' refers to an old style long term tenancy of unfurnished property and is not the same thing as a tenant on an AST.
    NOOOooooo !

    I have gone to great lengths above to make clear THIS IS NOT TRUE!

    There is no need for a new tenancy agreement.
  • Wasim
    Wasim Posts: 8 Forumite
    Hello!! I was not being elusive with details.. I was trying not to bore you with a long detailed message which you would get fed up reading. My Solicitor has proved unhelpful and that is why I turned to this forum although I have to say people can be very rude, for what reason I do not know!!
    For the record I sold my house with existing tenants in situ (they had a contract with my rental agent). The Buyer wanted to buy it with tenants in situ so that he would get a rental income for the house immediately after the sale.
    The EA (acting on behalf of the buyer) and I agreed a verbal commission of 1% if the house was sold by a certain date and 1/2% if it was sold after that date. The EA did not complete the sale by the agreed time (for 1%) and tried to increase the percentage by telephone to me (6 calls in ten minutes) when he knew he could not deliver the sale in the agreed time as promised, and that the percentage interest would decrease (we are going to court over this in December as it was only ever a verbal agreement and despite so many requests, I never received ONE single piece of paperwork from the EA. No terms and conditions, no agreement letter and offer letter). Meanwhile, the EA contacted my then tenants, made a series of accusations which have been proved incorrect and forced them to sign a new tenancy agreement under their agency. I believe that the EA was really working more for the benefit of the buyer of my property (a man in Singapore whom the EA buys a lot of properties on behalf of and whom they also deal with for his rental contracts). What I am contesting is: There was never any paperwork from the EA confirming the percentage interest, they contacted my tenants without my consent, forced them to re-sign a new tenancy agreement with them and have spoken many untruths during the process.
    I hope I have explained this clearly. I do have partial blindness and do my best to be clear but I am not a legal person and cannot therefore explain my situation using this terminology. First time in court, am self-representing myself and want to go in prepared with the right paperwork,

    Forever Grateful
    W
  • Annisele
    Annisele Posts: 4,835 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    OK. Several of the things you've said sound very, very unusual.

    They might very well be true in your case - but if you're going to try to persuade a judge, you'll need as much evidence as you can find to show that the situation really is as you describe.

    If they're not true - in other words, if you've mixed up your terminology - you're going to want to get that sorted out before you go anywhere near a court.
    Wasim wrote: »
    For the record I sold my house with existing tenants in situ (they had a contract with my rental agent).

    Are you sure the tenants had a contract with the agent? That's one of the very unusual things I mentioned.

    Usually there are two contracts: the tenants will have a contract with the landlord (you), and then the landlord will have a separate contract with the lettings agency. The LL's contract with the LA will usually say something about the notice the LL has to give the LA if he wants to terminate the contract.

    Did you have a contract with the LA, and what did it say about notice/termination?
    The EA (acting on behalf of the buyer) and I agreed a verbal commission of 1% if the house was sold by a certain date and 1/2% if it was sold after that date.

    Generally, EAs act on behalf of sellers, not buyers. The fact that you say you agreed to pay the EA something (regardless of exactly how much) indicates that you did have a contract with the EA for the EA to sell your property. So, the question is, what were the terms of that contract?

    You say that there was a verbal agreement that the commission would be lower if the sale was after a certain date. Is there any documentary evidence of that at all? For example, an email before that date referring to the special terms agreed?

    If there's no documentary evidence of special terms, I'd normally expect the EA's standard terms and conditions to apply (assuming they have them). Does the EA have standard T&Cs (whether they were posted to you or not), and what do they say about commission?
    Meanwhile, the EA contacted my then tenants, made a series of accusations which have been proved incorrect and forced them to sign a new tenancy agreement under their agency.

    Has this actually caused a problem for you? If not, I'd leave it be; it's up to your tenants whether they want to sign anything. The EA doesn't need your consent to contact your tenants (unless the agreement you signed with them says so).
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