MSE News: Are you a child benefit loser? Full Q&A

yestopinkdiamonds

aric wrote: »

I feel that the upcoming changes to child benefit are not being fairly implemented. I earn just over £60k a year and my wife hasn't worked for six years since the arrival of our first child and subsquent arrival of our second child two years later.

We made a decision for my wife to not to go back into employement and to look after our children with the understanding that we would receive child benefit.

It is frustrating that two working parents who earn £100k between them will still receive child benefit but as I am earning just over £60k we will lose it all.

Lucky you! You earn £60k per year AND you don't have to pay for child care or double work related costs??

Both my husband and I work full time - out of choice, mind you, so I'm not complaining. But it costs our household £40k off our gross earnings for the 2nd person to work (nursery fees, train fares, work clothes, lunches which neither of us have time to make at home). And we only have 1 child! Add another £20k in nursery fees once number 2 comes along.

So by my calculation, you're effectively earning £100k as a household.

I don't think the system will ever be totally fair. But two income families should not be penalised compared to families who choose or can afford for 1 person to stay at home.

I do feel for the single parents out there however - that's a different story.

princessdon

yestopinkdiamonds wrote: »

Lucky you! You earn £60k per year AND you don't have to pay for child care or double work related costs??

Both my husband and I work full time - out of choice, mind you, so I'm not complaining. But it costs our household £40k off our gross earnings for the 2nd person to work (nursery fees, train fares, work clothes, lunches which neither of us have time to make at home). And we only have 1 child! Add another £20k in nursery fees once number 2 comes along.

So by my calculation, you're effectively earning £100k as a household.

I don't think the system will ever be totally fair. But two income families should not be penalised compared to families who choose or can afford for 1 person to stay at home.

I do feel for the single parents out there however - that's a different story.

you get 2 x salary sacrifice for your childcare, you get 2 x tax allowances etc. Don't forget the tax differences.

That isn't a "dig" - I am a dual working household with childcare costs and I am 100% behind the total income being taken into account so 2 earners with £30K each should lose it too. As I said - we get extra tax breaks and monthly most (especially with lower childcare) will be significantly better off than a single £60K earner.

I also have more children and manage to make lunches for work (most days) - do it evening before with the school pack ups. I also get up at 6.30 and pop the slow cooker on so meal ready when come home. I don't have a "partner at home" and manage so if it makes a difference to your disposable income try making tomorrows lunches and tea the night before, especially as babes will go to bed earlier. I am normally doing homework until 9.30 plus younger bed time routines.

I didn't when they were young - I only started this when making school packups - so not preaching just giving a suggestion.

zagfles

princessdon wrote: »

I agree - We have a dual income - can easily afford to salary sacrifice the pension and childcare vouchers - meaning the state pay 40% of our pension - yeah more money for the so called rich in pensions, meanwhile the ones just above the breadline with high housing costs lose out.

I think ALL families who have more than £2500 pm (including benefits and their taxable equivilant) should lose out. I am not disagreeing with the decision, just the implementation of it and the stupidity and the lack of means testing.

Why? Means testing at a high income level is a total waste of time, it's complicated, bureaucratic, easily dodged and probably costs more than it saves. It's pointless. What next, charge people to see their GP if they earn over a certain amount?

If you want to take money off the "rich", raise tax rates. That's simple, fair, progressive and doesn't create stupid anomilies or spikes in marginal rates.

princessdon

zagfles wrote: »

Why? Means testing at a high income level is a total waste of time, it's complicated, bureaucratic, easily dodged and probably costs more than it saves. It's pointless. What next, charge people to see their GP if they earn over a certain amount?

If you want to take money off the "rich", raise tax rates. That's simple, fair, progressive and doesn't create stupid anomilies or spikes in marginal rates.

I don't care how they do it, just need to stop the unfairness of a dual working household with more than twice the income getting the benefit. TC are already in place, why can't CB be part of TC (ie a lower amount paid to those under 60K). Wouldn't cost much at all to implement, it's the way single parents are penalised that really annoys me if honest.

yestopinkdiamonds

princessdon wrote: »

you get 2 x salary sacrifice for your childcare, you get 2 x tax allowances etc. Don't forget the tax differences.

That isn't a "dig" - I am a dual working household with childcare costs and I am 100% behind the total income being taken into account so 2 earners with £30K each should lose it too. As I said - we get extra tax breaks and monthly most (especially with lower childcare) will be significantly better off than a single £60K earner.

I also have more children and manage to make lunches for work (most days) - do it evening before with the school pack ups. I also get up at 6.30 and pop the slow cooker on so meal ready when come home. I don't have a "partner at home" and manage so if it makes a difference to your disposable income try making tomorrows lunches and tea the night before, especially as babes will go to bed earlier. I am normally doing homework until 9.30 plus younger bed time routines.

I didn't when they were young - I only started this when making school packups - so not preaching just giving a suggestion.

I am clearly missing a trick. How I go about getting this tax allowance and tax break???? Childcare vouchers, yes, I know about these. Saves us £1k pa off our £18k pa nursery bill. But we get no other allowances or tax breaks.

It's clear that we are in different stages of family life and we obviously have very different work demands as well. But my point wasn't about lunches - yes if it really made a difference to our disposable income (it doesn't) I would find a way to make it work. I have learned in the past year that one can easily operate on 4 hours sleep a day, so why not just go to bed later, right? I do hold great sympathy for 2 income families who are living on a tighter budget if they are effectively penalised for being just that, however.

zagfles

princessdon wrote: »

I don't care how they do it, just need to stop the unfairness of a dual working household with more than twice the income getting the benefit. TC are already in place, why can't CB be part of TC (ie a lower amount paid to those under 60K). Wouldn't cost much at all to implement, it's the way single parents are penalised that really annoys me if honest.

Yeah single parents with high childcare costs get totally screwed by this - some will have a marginal rate over 100%. That's not an extreme case either - 3 kids and £200pw childcare, tax credits would still be payable over £50k, add the tax credits and child ben withdrawal to income tax and the marginal rate is over 100%.

System is already totally disjointed - someone in that situation is rich enough to pay higher rate tax but poor enough to get tax credits. Now they could be poor enough to get tax credits but too rich for child benefit!

But the numpty Sun readers are happy and that's all that matters.

zagfles

yestopinkdiamonds wrote: »

I am clearly missing a trick. How I go about getting this tax allowance and tax break???? Childcare vouchers, yes, I know about these. Saves us £1k pa off our £18k pa nursery bill. But we get no other allowances or tax breaks.

There are 2 of you earning. Therefore you get 2 personal allowances, 2 basic rate bands etc.

A single parent or single earner family only gets one tax allowance, one basic rate band etc.

Most sensible countries give you a tax allowance for non-earners. This country doesn't. Tax is assessed on the earner, not the family. Oh, except where they want to tax you on your partner's child ben of course...

audmcd

I am a single parent, widowed, earning £55k. I feel it extremely unfair that through no fault of my own I am losing out. My husband dies at 42 and had worked and paid NI/Tax etc from the age of 15. He will never get back out what he put in, and added to that I am losing out on Child Benefit now!

pthompson

rich189 wrote: »

£50k, 2x full time childcare, 2x cars to run, London cost of living, massive mortgage. Child benefit is equal to 10% of my wage and it's still a battle to stay out of debt.

I'm wondering why you need 2 cars in London? We live in London too but get by quite well with just public transport.

Juststayingafloat

If all income salary, bonus, interest are taken into consideration I think I just scrape over the £50K, but I salary sacrifice for the electronic childcare vouchers. Does that make any difference? Is it total income or taxable income?

My company are considering letting us buy additional annual leave upto 2 weeks which I think will more or less make sense for me with holiday childcare costs for 3 children being what I earn anyway I might as well be at home with them in the holidays. So hoping this goes ahead cos it might take me back under the £50k and I'd get extra time with my children