Potential complications re Grandmothers house...?

doughuelas

Hello

Can anyone help please?

Brief background - I paid my Grans mortgage off for her in 2009.

She retained full control of the property, everything was kept in her name and it was paid-off genuinely as a gesture of how much I loved my Gran.

She had a LONG battle with cancer and paying her mortgage off was something I wanted to do so she wasnt wasting her pension every month on it and she could be free to spend her £ on whatever she wanted.

My Gran has passed away recently and upon sifting through her paperwork I have found correspondance from Halifax (her mortgage provider prior to myself paying off her mortgage in 2009)

The letter dated 23 February 2009 details, "Further to the repayment of your mortgage, I am pleased to enclose the title deeds to your home.

I confirm the discharge of standard security has not been submitted to the keepers office to remove our charge over your property, therefore, a solicitor will have to be appointed

Although this does not have to be dealt with straight away you will need to make sure this has been completed should you wish to sell your property or require further lending"

We, as a family, are completely in the dark to this letter...and now that Gran has passed we are unsure what to do about this?

Gran was fiercely independent and as I have said, once the mortgage was paid off that was the end of the matter for me - I certainly did not proceed to poke my nose into my Grans affairs - the simple fact is they were nothing to do with me

Has anyone else experienced this or can someone please help shed some light on this situation?

Many Thanks

D

rosyw

Sorry for your loss.
I had a similar letter when I paid off the mortgage following the death of my husband, I believe there is a form which needs to be sent to the land registry to have the charge removed. I passed this all on to my solicitor who dealt with it when I sold the house. Some lenders do notify the land registry, others not. All pretty standard from what my solicitor told me, so hope this helps.

daska

IIUC it's saying is that the Halifax haven't notified the land registry that everything owed has been repaid and as a result the land registry records will show that there is still a charge registered against the property in their favour. It should be relatively simple for a solicitor to sort out but it's possible you may be able to do it yourself. There is a land registry rep on MSE but you could try ringing them to check the procedure: 0844 892 1111

Land_Registry

As rosyw rightly points out some lenders notify Land Registry and others do not although the vast majority of major lenders do so nowadays and often electronically.

The processes followed by lenders prior to redemption can vary considerably and as such Land Registry would not be aware as to why in this instance Halifax chose to issue certain deeds to your late Gran but not carry out the discharge as well - other posters may have more knowledge of this.

The key thing now is acquiring the necessary evidence of discharge from Halifax. If you are dealing with your late Gran's estate and have obtained probate then this should be relatively straightforward but they may of course make the same request as in 2009, namely that a solicitor needs to be appointed. Worth having a chat with them though to check first as the reasons which applied in 2009 may no longer be the case.

If they are happy to provide the necessary evidence of redemption then you can complete an application for removal of the charge yourself but before going into too much detail as to what is required to do so I would recommend getting the full details/requirements from Halifax first.

I would also add that if you, as executor/beneficiary, are intending to sell or deal with your late Gran's property then that plus the removal of the charge could all be done at the same time and/or by a solicitor/conveyancer

We have some online guides and FAQs which may be of interest but as mentioned a lot will depend on Halifax and what you intend to do with the property (if anything) - take a look at the FAQ on what to do once the mortgae has been paid off for an idea of what is required from our perspective.

Happy to post again once the additional information is obtained OR, and as daska posted, you can Contact Us using the phone number or by email - we cannot provide legal advice but we can advise as to what forms/guides would be relevant

doughuelas

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

As rosyw rightly points out some lenders notify Land Registry and others do not although the vast majority of major lenders do so nowadays and often electronically.

The processes followed by lenders prior to redemption can vary considerably and as such Land Registry would not be aware as to why in this instance Halifax chose to issue certain deeds to your late Gran but not carry out the discharge as well - other posters may have more knowledge of this.

The key thing now is acquiring the necessary evidence of discharge from Halifax. If you are dealing with your late Gran's estate and have obtained probate then this should be relatively straightforward but they may of course make the same request as in 2009, namely that a solicitor needs to be appointed. Worth having a chat with them though to check first as the reasons which applied in 2009 may no longer be the case.

If they are happy to provide the necessary evidence of redemption then you can complete an application for removal of the charge yourself but before going into too much detail as to what is required to do so I would recommend getting the full details/requirements from Halifax first.

I would also add that if you, as executor/beneficiary, are intending to sell or deal with your late Gran's property then that plus the removal of the charge could all be done at the same time and/or by a solicitor/conveyancer

We have some online guides and FAQs which may be of interest but as mentioned a lot will depend on Halifax and what you intend to do with the property (if anything) - take a look at the FAQ on what to do once the mortgae has been paid off for an idea of what is required from our perspective.

Happy to post again once the additional information is obtained OR, and as daska posted, you can Contact Us using the phone number or by email - we cannot provide legal advice but we can advise as to what forms/guides would be relevant

Dear all,

Many thanks for all the information - I dont know what I would do without it...

It really is greatly appreciated

Thanks

D

Land_Registry

Glad everyone's posts have proven useful - do come back and let us know the various facts once known as useful for me and others to understand and appreciate the issues and possible solutions involved.

doughuelas

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

Glad everyone's have proven useful - do come back and let us know the various facts once known as useful for me and others to understand and appreciate the issues and possible solutions involved.

Hello,

I will do - thank you

I have submitted info to yourselves via the 'contact us' function. Once I get word back I will definitely update everyone

Many Thanks yet again

D

Land_Registry

doughuelas wrote: »

The letter dated 23 February 2009 details, "Further to the repayment of your mortgage, I am pleased to enclose the title deeds to your home.

I confirm the discharge of standard security has not been submitted to the keepers office to remove our charge over your property, therefore, a solicitor will have to be appointed

Although this does not have to be dealt with straight away you will need to make sure this has been completed should you wish to sell your property or require further lending"

Aware you have already contacted Land Registry but overnight it dawned on me that the solution to the issue may lie elsewhere?

As other posters have indicated most lenders sort out the redemption issue for their borrowers, often for a fee. However reading your post again the parts I have emboldened may provide a clue as to the process not being one relevant to the Land Registry I represent, namely that for England & Wales.

The land registry for Scotland often refers to 'the Keeper of the registers of Scotland' and I wonder if your late Gran's property was in fact a Scottish property and therefore subject to a different registration/lending process?

If the property is in Scotland then try their website for more contact details/information - doubtless our Customer Support Team will provide the same response if you have included details of the property address in your email.

If I am correct then apologies for not spotting this sooner

doughuelas

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

Aware you have already contacted Land Registry but overnight it dawned on me that the solution to the issue may lie elsewhere?

As other posters have indicated most lenders sort out the redemption issue for their borrowers, often for a fee. However reading your post again the parts I have emboldened may provide a clue as to the process not being one relevant to the Land Registry I represent, namely that for England & Wales.

The land registry for Scotland often refers to 'the Keeper of the registers of Scotland' and I wonder if your late Gran's property was in fact a Scottish property and therefore subject to a different registration/lending process?

If the property is in Scotland then try their website for more contact details/information - doubtless our Customer Support Team will provide the same response if you have included details of the property address in your email.

If I am correct then apologies for not spotting this sooner

Hello,

You are correct that it is a Scottish property, many thanks for the link - I will look into it immediately

Many Thanks for you support

D

doughuelas

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

Glad everyone's posts have proven useful - do come back and let us know the various facts once known as useful for me and others to understand and appreciate the issues and possible solutions involved.

Hello

Quick update. Have spoken to the Scottish version of the Land Registry, their official response is as follows;
"The discharge deed removes the charge over the subjects, if the deed is not supplied by the Bank/Building Society, then it would have to drawn up, this is normally done by someone who is conveyancing trained, a lawyer/solicitor.

I agree It would be more cost effective to do yourself, however, we would normally advise that you contact a conveyancing trained solicitor to deal with this matter on your behalf.

If you wish to undertake the process yourself, then the deeds, the relevant forms and fees must be completed and presented. Please click on the following links for information on our services

www.ros.gov.uk/gettingitright/index.html (for information on Fees and Registration)

www.ros.gov.uk/professional/index.html (drop down menu in bottom right corner FORMS)

www.ros.gov.uk/rotbook/ (a guide to Land Registration)"


I have also went back to Halifax regarding this - they no longer provide the service to discharge a property and have also said to consult a solicitor


The thing that annoys me is back in 2009 when I phoned up to pay my Grans mortgage off, I made it implicity clear that I wanted everything sorted so my Gran had full control of the property


That was when the lady on the phone discussed paying £50 for the deeds etc (back in 2009 i was very naive as to the processes that i am now aware of).



At this point - with Halifax knowing that they would need to discharge the property for a £30 fee - why was this not stated that any further money would need to be paid?


As far as I was concerned, based on their guidance, the process was completed



Clearly paying £30 for a discharge was never going to be a problem from my side as I had agreed to pay for the deeds...another £30 wouldnt have been a problem at all!!



But this was definitely never mentioned to me. Is this common practice?


Now it looks as though we have to consult a solicitor that will obviously cost alot more than £30


Any help would be great on this subject


Thanks


D

NAR

Use Halifax's complaints procedures, though it may be hard to prove anything, if you don't have anything in writing to confirm your intentions at the time. Nothing ventured, nothing gained though.