Storage Heaters to use or not to use??

Richie-from-the-Boro

grahamc2003 wrote: »

No, that's incorrect.

Usually with heating, efficiency usually means the ratio of heat produced to the amount of electricity used - which is always 100% - that bit is physics.

But efficiency can be defined any way we like (within reason) to differentiate between different characteristics of different systems. In the case of storage heaters, we could define efficiency, if we like, as the ration of heat remaining at (eg)17:00 compared to heat input. We could call this the '5pm efficiency' if we liked. You'd find the '5pm efficiency' was much higher for modern storage heaters than old style storage heaters, and this due to better insulation materials.The same higher insulation means that later in the day, the heat remaining can be extracted from the central area of the heater via convection (by opening a flap to allow airflow through).

I've personally had several thick old heaters replaced by several modern slimline heaters, and there really is no comparison between the efficacy of each type - the former being very poor at storing heat late into the evening, the latter usually acceptable at doing so.

I don't agree with you on this one grahamc2003, everyone understands what we mean by efficiency and no you can't define it any way you like within or without reason. Lets see if the group can help us get this one answered, can the group find any evidence of improvements to front / back - top / bottom / sides - insulation leading to the Dimplex [or anyone else's] claim that they have 2 1/2 times more insulating value than ~ _~ well they don't say who or what they are better than ~ _~ any ideas group ?

I'm not convinced that the quoted 'new' insulating material is any more insulating than the old insulating material, Dimplex started the round of claiming 2 1/2 more times insulating value in the same way that Farho etal storage heaters make snake~oil claims that you can input 770W and get a heat output equivalent to 1225W. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can only change from one form to another. The function of storage heaters is to store energy to be used later in the day there is an anticipatory element to them, but the issue here is the capacity to slow down the release of energy in the form of heat 'leaking' into the room from the night store heater - when its not wanted.

I'm open minded and available to be persuaded that the new heater designs, the enclosure or its bricks or the specific type of magical silica used in the insulation material is more able to resist heat leaking into the room than the old materials and designs. If we ignore for example fan assist and middle element panel convection and stick to the basics I can't find any evidence / white papers / science whatsoever to support your theory. As far as I'm aware the only real change in the last decade was the banning of asbestos and the introduction of silica as a thermal insulator.

NOTE : To save you looking it up Dimplex claim : Storage Core - Material: High density bonded magnetite bricks / Heating Element - Type: Incoloy sheathed in units of 850W / Thermal Insulation Front and Rear Panels – microporous silica / Top and Ends – resin free mineral wool / Base – calcium silicate slab

Wickedkitten

macman wrote: »

Using oil-filed heaters (or any other sort of electric heaters) on peak rate E7 will cost you around 4 times as much per kWh as storage heaters on cheap rate. What do you think the point of storage heaters is, if not to economise by using cheaper rate power?
All electric heaters are the same efficiency, 100%.

Not really. Before we ripped them out we had 4 ancient storage heaters that used about 3.4kw each. Never ever bothered even turning them on because Having them on would end up costing £4.76 a night.

Getting a halogen heater for the living room and running it even full whack at 1.6kw for 12 hours on day rates costs £1.92

The good thing of course being that you don't have to turn the halogen heater up all the way.

grahamc2003

Wickedkitten wrote: »

Not really. Before we ripped them out we had 4 ancient storage heaters that used about 3.4kw each. Never ever bothered even turning them on because Having them on would end up costing £4.76 a night.

Getting a halogen heater for the living room and running it even full whack at 1.6kw for 12 hours on day rates costs £1.92

The good thing of course being that you don't have to turn the halogen heater up all the way.

That's hardly a like-for-like comparison is it.

Presumably, your storage heaters heated 4 rooms for £4.76 and your halogen heater heats one room for £1.92.

Either stick to heating one room (£1.20 with SH, £1.92 with halogen) or 4 rooms (4.76 with SH, presumably £7.70 with halogen).

grahamc2003

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

I'm open minded and available to be persuaded that the new heater designs, the enclosure or its bricks or the specific type of magical silica used in the insulation material is more able to resist heat leaking into the room than the old materials and designs.

You don't have to be open minded at all to accept that a modern 5inch thicl slimline storage heater which retains the heat much better than an 18inch thick old style storage heater employs better insulation materials with higher insulation properties - it is simply self-evident that that is the case.

But since to don't agree, perhaps you could explain your theory on how better heat retention from much thinner materials comes about.

Naf

Some of this has probably already been said:
You have two options:
1. Keep your E7 tariff and use your storage heaters - ditch the oil filled radiators altogether and get some convector heaters (for summer and winter evening top-up) instead.
2. Turn all the storage heaters off completely, and also switch from your E7 tariff to a regular one, the use the radiators.

Option 2 will definitely be more expensive, but easier to manage than storage heaters. Using SHs requires forward planning; deciding tonight what the weather is likely to be tomorrow, and if that will justify putting on the SH in any given room. I am on a similar tariff to you (the co-op?), and worked out that I could run my 3kW convector heater for 3-4 hours every day and it would still work out cheaper than charging the SH each night just in case it was needed. So my SHs have been off until last night (frost even before I got home). Convector heaters offer a much faster boost of heat than oil rads can - and while the energy conversion is near to 100% for either of them, the oil radiators take time to heat the oil first; which makes them poor to use in conjunction with another main heat source.

hate-banks

I have the same issue as above. I'm supposed to move into a new flat on November 19th, and the whole flat is suited with Storage Heaters, but I'm really not sure I'll move into it at all now, cause I can't afford more than £75 a month for energy bills.

Is it reasonable to expect my bills not to go over my target with Storage heaters and probably 1 movable convection heater used just a few hours at night/morning?

thnx

rogerblack

hate-banks wrote: »

I have the same issue as above. I'm supposed to move into a new flat on November 19th, and the whole flat is suited with Storage Heaters, but I'm really not sure I'll move into it at all now, cause I can't afford more than £75 a month for energy bills.

Is it reasonable to expect my bills not to go over my target with Storage heaters and probably 1 movable convection heater used just a few hours at night/morning?

thnx

A 'flat with storage heaters' could easily vary from 30 quid a month, to 300.
A well insulated flat with other heated flats on 4 sides, or a poorly insulated flat with whole wall glass walls, above a warehouse.

luvchocolate

I live in a 2 bed ground floor flat do not need the sh in the bedrooms have the one in the hallway and one in the lounge input at the moment no 3 output never needs to be above no 1!
When it gets colder input goes to full no 5, water heater on 4 hours thro the night, have a hot bath every evening, use washer on timer thro night, night time is 12.30 to 7.30 am
bills average at £45 per month thro the year.
heaters are about 25yrs old.......no probs. no gas.

[Deleted User]

bella2012 wrote: »

Hey guys totally new to the site but sure someone will have a wee bit of advice for me.

I currently live in a top floor flat which is costing me a bomb to heat right now, averaging about £70 - £90 per week. I'm on maternity leave so i am in most days and obviously need the heating on for the wee man. We are currently on a pre-pay meter which is going to be changed to monthly dd.

We do have storage heaters but they are quite old and did use them last year but they cost a fortune so now use the stand alone oil heaters instead. Phoned energy supplier this morning and was basically told that we should use the storage heaters at night during off peak to heat the house not the oil ones as they will be dearer.

What i'm wondering is should i get new storage heaters and have them on at night or was the guy just fobbing me off about my electricity costs?? It seems that other people in our area don't use their storage heaters as they are too expansive so I'm really confused and getting poorer by the day.

Sorry about the long windedness of it all, any comments appreciated

Thanks

Hi i have storage heaters and im in a 2bed ground floor flat. I dont find them expensive to run. Its dependant on your tarriff rate to whether they are ecomonical or not. But theres only me and i only run one in the lounge as my flat only has two (one also in the main bedroom, which i find too hot). The lounge one i leave on throughout the autumn and turn it off in spring. The bedroom one i use when its really cold but turn it off half way through the night by flicking the switch. Im all electric but dont use my emmersion heater for hot water unless i want a bath, i have a separae electric shower. I also use a kettle for washing up dishes as theres only me. it depends upon your circumstances and tarriff rates. My bills have never been over £525 per year for the last 5years and i did have my adult son live with me for 4 of those years. Even when he was here he had a separate convector heater in his room running and i also have a pull cord heater in bathroom. But my bills werent expensive.

hate-banks

luvchocolate wrote: »

I live in a 2 bed ground floor flat do not need the sh in the bedrooms have the one in the hallway and one in the lounge input at the moment no 3 output never needs to be above no 1!
When it gets colder input goes to full no 5, water heater on 4 hours thro the night, have a hot bath every evening, use washer on timer thro night, night time is 12.30 to 7.30 am
bills average at £45 per month thro the year.
heaters are about 25yrs old.......no probs. no gas.

It's reassuring that it is possible to have reasonable bills with Storage Heaters.
You said you did not the SH in the bedrooms, so what do you use then please?

ImDoingItForMe wrote: »

Hi i have storage heaters and im in a 2bed ground floor flat. I dont find them expensive to run. Its dependant on your tarriff rate to whether they are ecomonical or not. But theres only me and i only run one in the lounge as my flat only has two (one also in the main bedroom, which i find too hot). The lounge one i leave on throughout the autumn and turn it off in spring. The bedroom one i use when its really cold but turn it off half way through the night by flicking the switch. Im all electric but dont use my emmersion heater for hot water unless i want a bath, i have a separae electric shower. I also use a kettle for washing up dishes as theres only me. it depends upon your circumstances and tarriff rates. My bills have never been over £525 per year for the last 5years and i did have my adult son live with me for 4 of those years. Even when he was here he had a separate convector heater in his room running and i also have a pull cord heater in bathroom. But my bills werent expensive.

My flat is a lot like yours, except it's at the top floor, 3rd floor, in a modern building (no tennement or anything like that). I too will have electric shower and a pull cord heater in the bathroom. Do you use any convector heating sometimes when it's really cold please?