Really Worried that I Will be Dismissed? Any Advice??

zzzLazyDaisy

As others have said, you won't do yourself any favours by resigning as it will be on your record that you resigned during an investigation into gross misconduct. It is perfectly reasonable for an employer to mention this when asked for a reference.

However, from what you say, you do need to take a long hard look at whether you are in the right job.

When I was in practice, if a secretary spoke to a client in the way you describe I would be furious - regardless of whether you used the F word or not.

Regarding your earlier warning, that has expired so they cannot take it into account when considering what sanction to apply in this case (although if you are found guilty of GM that is irrelevant). But I am concerned that you got into a heated exchange with a trainee solicitor - bearing in mind that s/he is likely to become a solicitor at the firm and could well be your boss as some point. You were found to be at fault then too. It is very unlikely that you would be disciplined for two isolated incidents if you are otherwise normally charming and helpful and well liked by clients and colleagues. If you have a reputation for being rude or unhelpful this could be a case of 'the last straw'.

If you work in an open plan room with other secretaries (which tends to be the norm) your general conduct towards clients and colleagues will have been noted.

I also hope that your spelling and grammar is better at work than it is here, as a good relationship between secretary and solicitor is essential, and having to be constantly checking for mistakes is time consuming and frustrating.... which also won't endear you to the people you work for. That shouldn't influence the findings on whether you are guilty of the conduct complained of, but it might affect whether they are inclined to give you another chance if they are choosing whether to dismiss you or not.

Your best approach, if you want to keep your job, is to explain that you did not use the word that you are accused of, but that you could have handled the exchange better, apologise for your conduct, and grovel.

Mischa8

LegalSec wrote: »

Thanks for all your responses.
What I really need to know now is should I resign and if Iresign can they still sack me? It will be much harder getting another job if I am dismissed than it is recorded that I resigned.

To answer your questions.

1. I was ‘short’ with this client because she had telephoned3 times that afternoon complaining that some documents had not gone out toher. My boss was out so there wasnothing I could do expect promise that my boss telephoned her in themorning. She would not accept this andafter 10 minutes saying the same thing I just told her (forcefully) it was pointlesscarrying on this conversation. I did nottell her to F*** Off.


2. I was in a heated verbal argument with one ofthe trainee Solicitors last winter which resulted in me receiving a verbalwarning which expired in June. Eventhough this has expired, can they still use this in their decision making?
Is it likely or usual that the client will attend mydisciplinary hearing?

I actually sympathise with you to some extent with the client - as when I had the conversation with the client who stated (rightly) that I'd put the phone down on her - she was extremely rude and difficult with me. But in this case I think I had a witness and then later on we discovered a previous solicitor who'd worked for this client (different firm) let slip a bit about this client being difficult. the point is sometimes you cannot be forceful with a client - just polite and that is that.

The client shouldn't attend your disciplinary hearing - why on earth should she do that?? Your firm will just get both sides of the story from each of you.

I am very surprised you got into a heated verbal argument with a trainee legal solicitor and not surprised you got a verbal warning.

To be honest, though you should not resign now, I think you should think about resigning afterwards and/or following another secretarial path (not legal) where dealing with clients doesn't happen. And lastly, you should think about your attitude towards colleagues. It sounds a bit as if you get stressed easily or have anger management issues.

Pricivius

Just to add a point regarding the expired warning...

As it is expired, the firm should not take it into account in deciding whether they have a reasonable belief that you swore at the client as alleged. However, what they can do is use it after they have made that decision when they are considering mitigation. For example, if they decide that you swore at the client, they must then consider the penalty. Dismissal is available to them and they should consider whether there are any mitigating circumstances to suggest that they should reduce the penalty to a final written warning. Such circumstances would be a previously unblemished record, extreme provocation, very recent family bereavement or illness affecting your judgement etc.... In this instance, they would look at your previous record and see that it is not unblemished and this could knock mitigation on the head and give them a reason not to lessen the penalty.

So can they use it to decide your fate? Yes, but not in deciding your guilt, only in supporting the penalty.

dizzyrascal

Just out of interest, did the trainee solicitor get disciplined too or was it just the OP.
Just because someone holds a senior position does not mean that they are always right.
Some people are just impossible or difficult to work with and some times (especially in an environment like a legal practice) you do get people who treat the support staff like dirt.

Mischa8

dizzyrascal wrote: »

Just out of interest, did the trainee solicitor get disciplined too or was it just the OP.
Just because someone holds a senior position does not mean that they are always right.
Some people are just impossible or difficult to work with and some times (especially in an environment like a legal practice) you do get people who treat the support staff like dirt.

Either way, depending on company most legal firms (especially medium/smaller ones) tend to have hierarchies when it comes to secretaries and solicitors be they trainee or not. Most trainee solicitors are just that, being trained, they're not necessarily taken on after their training period.

But you would expect there not to be a *very heated discussion* between a secretary and a solicitor. The secretary, especially if she is experienced would be expected to either back down or not to get involved in the first place.

There have been examples where I've worked in large accountancy firm and also others where yes, some senior members treat support staff like dirt. But this can usually be dealt with quite easily by HR or someone higher than the senior member of staff.

Some secretaries sadly do tend to have *high opinions* of themselves and forget they're at an office to work for another person.

dizzyrascal

Hi
I was just thinking of one person I used to work with who, although highly qualified, used to treat the support staff with utter contempt and most of them used to hate working with him and always get upset at his attitude.
He tried to have a go at me once (ringing me at home to complain about something that was entirely his own fault and nothing to do with me) but I stood my ground, it got a bit heated and eventually I put the phone down on him. After that we barely exchanged more than a few words and he left a few weeks afterwards. My boss (and his) was furious with him.
He was young but an absolute pain to work with

LegalSec

dizzyrascal wrote: »

Just out of interest, did the trainee solicitor get disciplined too or was it just the OP.

The Trainee Solicitor made the complaint against me and I received a verbal warning. I appealed against it arguing that she was to blame but the appeal was rejected.

heretolearn_2

I do have some sympathy for you, OP.

We have our share of difficult clients too and luckily I'm in a position where I don't have to speak directly to them very often and they are left to our support staff (who have the patience of saints, unlike me) to deal with most of the time.

But when you've got someone you already know is difficult, you have to handle them with kid gloves, without letting them bully you. If you have to tell them the same thing ten times (and we've been there) then that is what you do. Politely.

Now you are in this situation, no she shouldn't be in your meeting. You'll have to try and calmly put across your side and if she is known for being difficult, there's a good chance you'll be believed. And any client who tried to dictate to us what we should do as a firm - dismiss someone - would get pretty short shrift from us. Having said that, last year someone failed their probation for getting into arguments with two clients, but we witnessed it, she had obvious anger management problems around the office too, and this was only one of the reasons we didn't want to keep her. If it was one of our long-term staff in your situation, then we'd know our person well, and would be able to judge what was likely to have actually happened. We wouldn't throw away a good team member over one 'he said, she said' incident.

Were there any witnesses to what happened who can confirm your side of things?

sho_me_da_money

LegalSec wrote: »

Thanks for all your responses.
What I really need to know now is should I resign and if Iresign can they still sack me? It will be much harder getting another job if I am dismissed than it is recorded that I resigned.

To answer your questions.

1. I was ‘short’ with this client because she had telephoned3 times that afternoon complaining that some documents had not gone out toher. My boss was out so there wasnothing I could do expect promise that my boss telephoned her in themorning. She would not accept this andafter 10 minutes saying the same thing I just told her (forcefully) it was pointlesscarrying on this conversation. I did nottell her to F*** Off.


2. I was in a heated verbal argument with one ofthe trainee Solicitors last winter which resulted in me receiving a verbalwarning which expired in June. Eventhough this has expired, can they still use this in their decision making?
Is it likely or usual that the client will attend mydisciplinary hearing?

No evidence? See point 2 above.

GAME OVER am afraid. In a best case scenario expect a FWW

Here is my breakdown, you have admitted to being short, which places you in a situation of being emotionally vulnerable and therefore more susceptible to using the words F OFF. You have no evidence therefore your past history and conduct will come into play and given that you've had a verbal warning regarding an internal complaint, it is likely that the customers complaint holds more weight in your current predicament.

Plus you mentioned she has "more money than sense", which is not relevant in this situation but to you it is. A slight bit of jealousy going on much?

I really need to quit typing whilst sat on the bog. Good day.

makeyourdaddyproud

If I know I'm innocent, and of hitherto sound character in the cited case, i'm going to court if i'm dismissed. It's no threat to me if the employer is armed with only 'reasonable' evidence.

Employers must learn they simply cannot whimsically dismiss people - all this is going to do is take the matter to court and risk negative press and image to their brand. So it's much riskier for them.

If you 'roll over and play dead', no one will thank you for it, and you will STILL have that CV black mark.