Difficulty with Electrian... any advice please?!! :)

Parisian

Gahhhhh, I'm in a bit of a sticky situation and so would appreciate any advice/opinions please!!!

An electrician completed electrical rewiring work in the home of my mother in 2008. He is a NIC EIC Domestic Installer and we received a six year NICEIC warranty at the time. There have since been concerns that this work does not comply with national safety standards (at the time of installation or now). Recently, an electrician from British Gas replaced a dimmer in our downstairs hallway and advised us to seek immediate inspection of the work in the property. He made the following comments verbally and in writing:
1. Multicore flex used as switch line in hallway.
2. NO CPC continuity on hallway light.
3. Main earth undersized.
4. No visible earth bond to water.
5. Fuse Board not to current standards – the electrician also commented that it wouldn’t have been in line with the standards at the time it was installed.
The electrician was particularly concerned about point 1 – that multicore flex is being used as switch line in the hallway, and that this is dangerous.
I telephoned the NICEIC, and they logged my concerns. They guided me to the complaint procedure which involves primarily writing to the Electrician first and attempting to resolve the concerns that way first:

"In the event of a complaint, the complainant should firstly bring the matter directly to the Approved Enterprise’s attention in writing, allowing a reasonable period of time for the enterprise to respond. Should this prove to be unsuccessful in resolving the complaint, this Complaints Procedure may be applicable"

I wrote to the Electrician, who unfortunately is a member of my mothers Church. I requested a formal response to my concerns in writing. I also gave him the option of calling me, but asked that he also reply formally in writing. However, he seems to have tried to bypass this by calling my elderly vulnerable mother directly (whose number was not even enclosed in the letter to him). I had prepared for this, and asked her to direct him to me should this happen.

He telephoned me later that evening, and asked if he could come around to my mothers home. I told him that I wasn't available for the next 3 days, but could meet him on Friday evening (this evening) or another day of mutual convenience. He was quite hesitant, saying that there would be traffic on a Friday evening (despite living only 10-15 minutes away). His wife was shouting at him in the background and he asked me to hold. What followed was quite frankly deplorable. She seemed to be very angry. He said "she cannot meet with me because she is a doctor and is busy and works during the day or something". The wife was shouting and I heard something along the lines of "I don't care if she is a !!!!ing doctor". This was quite frankly shocking, as I had not said anything on the telephone about not being able to meet him because I was a doctor/working (infact I was going on holiday for 3 days!). There was only mention of my Dr title when I wrote to him, and it hadn't even come up/was not even relevant in our telephone conversation. When he came back on the phone I asked him if there was a problem and said that I hadn't said anything about being a doctor being the reason I couldn't meet him for the next three days. He replied "Aren't you a doctor? You said that on your letter" in a very sarcastic/challenging tone. Quite frankly bizarre. Anyway, we agreed to meet this evening but he said he might be late/might need to rearrange due to his own work committments. I have not heard from him and so am expecting that we shall meet this evening.

Apologies for the long and winding story. I wondered if anyone could give me any advice - either as a consumer or as an electrician:

1. Are the faults noted by the British Gas engineer something to be worried about?
2. Any ideas on the specific points I should try to cover/anything I should try to establish if the meeting goes ahead this evening?
3. The NIC EIC warranty was for 6 years when issued (as stated on the certificate issued), but appears to now have changed to 3 years on the website. The complaints procedure online is in line with this 3 year warranty. Will NIC EIC maintain the 6 year warranty issued to us? This is important as our complaint does not fall within 3 years, but falls within 6 years. If the NIC EIC do not uphold the 6 year warranty is there anyone I can go to, to fight this as the work was commisioned on the basis of a 6 year warranty? It sounds like this is going to be a messy complaint, with a difficult electrician if the telephone conversation is anything to go by.
4. Is there any other advice anyone can offer me either from having gone through similar or having knowledge of the field?
5. It sounds like he is going to bring his wife - and if he does so am I entitled to turn her away unless she confirms she is aligned with his business? Who brings their partner to meetings?! He never brought her when he did the work!

Frankly, I am not looking forward to this meeting. My mother is particularly upset, and I hate to think that someone can take a blind, disabled and vulnerable elderly lady for a ride.

Thanks guys for listening/any advice in advance xxx

Gra76

The most important question to be answered categorically is "Did the work carried out in 2008 conform to the regulations as they were in 2008?"

If the answer is yes then you don't have any recourse. If the answer is no then I don't think it's unfair to expect the electrician to put right what he did, although he'd have to make it conform to current standards obviously.

Stooby2

It might be worth getting a second independent inspection by another qualified electrician. If two different electricians agree the work isn't up to standard you'll be in a stronger position. And you can specifically ask the second guy if it was up to standard for 2008.

Parisian

Thank you Gra76 and Stooby2

I will definately see what he has to say about the regulations in 2008.
The British Gas engineer says the fuse board to be used was changed in 2007/08 and he has used the old model. The BGas electrician also said the use of multiflex core is against all regulations, now and then. The same goes for undersizing the main earth.

Stooby2, I think I will see what he has to say today. If things don't add up I will make a full complaint to the NEC EIC. If I make a full complaint, the work will be assessed by an NEC EIC Engineer. The only thing is, I am not sure if my 6 year guarantee still stands (ie. I was given a certificate saying the work is guaranteed for 6 years, but the NEC EIC has changed this to 3 years now on their website). Does anybody know?

rxbren

not sure if true but was told bathrooms dont need to be earthed

verydeeppockets

The problem you'll have is these bodies don't really give you much protection if their members don't do things right.
Trading Standards do though - I'd be mentioning that to the electrician to see if that works. But first....
1. Multicore flex used as switch line in hallway - FAIL - are you saying flex has been buried in the wall from switch to ceiling rose??
2. NO CPC continuity on hallway light - can be fixed easily - loose wire?
3. Main earth undersized - an easy fix running thicker cable from consumer unit to meter/main fuse.
4. No visible earth bond to water - doesn't mean the bond is missing, it may just ne well hidden - a second opinion invoving testing earth continuity is needed.
5. Fuse Board not to current standards – the electrician also commented that it wouldn’t have been in line with the standards at the time it was installed - I don't like that. Whether he's a chuch-goer or not.
I assume it is fairly new and has RCDs and not rewireable fuses :rotfl:
There may be an element of scaremongering from BG - getting a second opinion is well worth it.
Oh, and re g'tee, it's valid from installation - I suspect if it says 6 years on it, you have 6 years from date of completion, regardless of any current g'tees.

rubble2

Parisian wrote: »

Thank you Gra76 and Stooby2

I will definately see what he has to say about the regulations in 2008.
The British Gas engineer says the fuse board to be used was changed in 2007/08 and he has used the old model. The BGas electrician also said the use of multiflex core is against all regulations, now and then. The same goes for undersizing the main earth.

Stooby2, I think I will see what he has to say today. If things don't add up I will make a full complaint to the NEC EIC. If I make a full complaint, the work will be assessed by an NEC EIC Engineer. The only thing is, I am not sure if my 6 year guarantee still stands (ie. I was given a certificate saying the work is guaranteed for 6 years, but the NEC EIC has changed this to 3 years now on their website). Does anybody know?

I would say that your issue isn't with the warranty which I assume covers things like failure of materials etc. but rather with the quality of work undertaken.

If the guy did the work in 2008 and issued NICEIC documentation then that work should have been compliant with the regs at that time, it would appear that it wasn't.

The NICEIC have the ability to recind the electricians membership which would prevent him from (legally) self certificating electrical work under Part P, I think that the threat of losing NICEIC accreditation should be sufficient to persuade him to rectify the faulty workmanship so I would concentrate on the threat of involving the NICEIC to persuade him.

Alias_Omega

I've seen many a job where a 30mA RCD has been fitted into the incoming tails...

Hey presto..an RCD board...


OP,

I would take BG with a pinch of salt, these are the people who told me that i needed a £600 powerflush before they could repair/cover my boiler for repairs/maintenance, then when i paid the £120 one-off repair fee. The same engineer came out and repaired the system without the powerflush.

Earth bonding? With the introduction of plastic piping, it always made it difficult. Therefore we would run a 4mm earth from a ring main socket/consumer unit to the radiator/sink/bath as required. Additionally, similar to the kitchen sink & across the bottom of the boiler.

Ken68

I had an electrician round here last week. He rubbished my wiring, rubbished all the work done before by another. Tis a well known technique FUD...Fear Uncertainty Doubt.
Just a ploy to get more work. Maybe works on old ladies.

keystone

rxbren wrote: »

not sure if true but was told bathrooms dont need to be earthed

You are correct but no bathroom ever did.

Oh I see - you mean supplementary equipotential bonding. No it doesn't if the electrics in the property are to the 17th Edition. If they are to the 16th and before then then yes it must be in place. Kitchens haven't needed supplementary bonding since the 15th.

Cheers

brutus1983

BG are con artists

my mother had 1 from bg out to fit a smart meter they told her she needed a new consumer unit becuaseit wasnt upto 17th edition

believe me it was becuase I a qualified electrician fitted a new unit a month before covering each circuit with an rcbo instead of a dual rcd board

about the multicore flex aslong as the cable is of the right csa (cross sectional area) to take the load you can wire a whole house in flex its a bit rough but cant find anything to go againstit in the regs

BG sparks are salesmen 1st tradesman 2nd