CSA - Income, stuggling to pay bills etc...

wayne0

Hi guys,

Now, Im new here, so please let me explain first...

I am the NRP. I have 1 child with the ex and 2 with my current wife. My wife stays at home and looks after the kids. I work full time, and get Child tax credits, working tax, child benefit, and my wages.

in all i get about £320ish a week to pay my bills, feed and cloth myself, wife and 2 kids. (the law says i need 250ish in living expenses AFTER child benefit etc.

My rent is 625 quid a month (£145 a week) and then council tax is about £27 a week.

I spend about £40-£50 a week in fuel to go and see my son.

I was paying £15 a week in maintenence - in addition to buying stuff etc... (now, i understand some people wont think this is "alot" of money, but i struggle to live at it is so...)

now comes the problem... CSA contacted me last month, and one lady there advised me to speak to ex (PWC) and explain... as the initial contact simply said she was only contacting them because payments were "irregular" (I paid sometimes 30 every 2 weeks, or 4 weeks at £60 - depending on when i had bills going out etc)

so... i spoke to her, and agreed that i would make a payment every fortnight at £30. she was happy with this... (i assumed the CSA closed the case.... Assumptions make an !!! of you and me.... remember this people :P)

then, two days ago, i get a letter from CSA. They have been in contact with my employer and got a list of my wages.... taken it as £250 a week (my wage slips are only ever max of £440 a fortnight, so im guessing they didnt account for tax etc)
and then my WTC, CTC ETC has been taken into account also....

so they made it that i would have to pay almost £50 a week, and sent me and my ex a letter confirming this...

now PWC doesnt want to listen, because she has the £ signs in her eyes...

I have no problem paying for my kids, but i have to worry about the two i have living at home also... How can it be justified that money is taken from my two kids at home, to give to my ex, despite her getting the same benefits (CTC, WTC ETC)

also, I fear that i wont be able to see my son either now, because I wont be able to pay for the fuel etc...

is there any help i could get with this? Is it really like ive read and all done and dusted?

My wife cannot work, so i have to support her... and because my wife is at home, she is expected to look after my kids, but i dont get any "concessions" for her need to live ? (mind, £20% reduction before assesment = about £60, so when they expect to take £50 orff me for one child, how can they say i can support two kids (one who is newborn) on £60?

surely there is something that can be done with this?

been round the council about HB and CTB, and they cant help, apparently even though it isnt taken into account for PWC's income, it cant be "disregarded" on my income ?

hopefully you get my problem etc, and im sure im gonna get some "support your kid" BS or w.e. but the problem is, how about the 2 i have at home?

clearingout

you may be able to get a reduction for your travel expenses but don't hold your breath on it being very much. Have you asked your ex to help with travel? would she meet you half way?

make sure your children have been included in the assessment so the reduction is made for your responsibility towards them. Personally, I see it as a case of 'how can they justify saying a child needs £X to live on but then take away from that for non-biological children' so it really is a works both ways. You will probably find that the amount your ex loses 'cos of the children in your household will about even out with the amount of your tax credits she takes.

Unfortunately, once the CSA is involved, you will have no choice but to make the payments or they'll take it direct from your wages.

I note, however, that you claim not to be able to support your 2 children on £60 but you expect your ex to support one child on £15 (or £30 if you're looking at it 50/50). What's good for the goose and all that!

wayne0

dont get me wrong.... I have no problem paying for my kids...

I also bought lots of clothes, etc for my son (in addition to £15/wk).

you may be able to get a reduction for your travel expenses but don't hold your breath on it being very much.

how would i go about this?

apart from the one lady i spoke to last month on the phone, all of the other gents ive spoken to on the phone have simply been rude, and aggressive with me... (which TBF i find an insult)...

they have been no help to me at all. with one actually saying "theres plenty of information on the internet try using google"... and accusing me of being "obstructive" because i said to him i would prefer he direct me to the relevant information (when the call apparently lost signal)

also i find it amazing that they were able to apply to my work for info, when the only contact i had with them was a telephone call over a month previously...

oh also, the payments are going to be DOE apparently... ? they wont let me set up a DD or anything else (including a direct payment or w/e) from what i read in 2013 this will mean i have to pay 20% on top of the payment to cover their charges? despite not being able to pay by other means?)

clearingout

phone and explain you have travel expsenses to see your son and they'll explain what to do. There are people who post here who understand how it works but I don't personally understand the calculation.

When exactly did you speak to them on the phone for the first time? Have you received any paperwork in the meantime? If you haven't, have you moved house recently? Could your ex have given them an address you no longer live at? The CSA operates on pretty tight timescales for turn around - if you don't respond, they will move straight to the attachment of earnings as you are considered non compliant. If you haven't filled in any paperwork - which you seem to be saying - this will be why they have gone to your employer.

clearingout

when they new system comes in there will be an obligation to pay an administration charge, yes. However, this will also apply to your ex and you will be given an opportunity to move away from the CSA. The proposal is that if you are willing to pay regularly, your ex won't be allowed to use the CSA BUT if you default on your regular payments, the CSA will step straight back in. As your case is already open, it is unlikely you will shift to the new system anytime soon - there are still people on the pre 2003 system!

You have no obligation to pay for anything other than maintenance (and obviously you'll have to pay your travel expenses) so you can stop paying clothes. You have been lucky to get away with paying so little for so long - I don't really blame your ex for going to the CSA, particularly if you have been inconsistent with payment.

wayne0

i have hardly been inconsistant with payment... and the £15 is only recently... i was paying £200 a month, but was also earning a lot more money... i then got made redundant, but continued to pay (taking it from my savings)... when i got a new job, i was earning 400ish a fortnight (quite a leap down from £1500/mth), so obviously the amount i paid came down too... (it was actually using the CM calculator the £15 was worked out... because we (PWC and myself) only thought it took into account my earnings - (from mediation sessions)...

does anybody know what the CS3 rules will be exactly? (from googling ive seen that CTC wont be counted? is this true?)

wayne0

clearingout wrote: »

this will also apply to your ex

7% charge levied (so £3.50) i really think she will want to remain on it to see me pay the extra £10 etc... (bit of a joke really isnt it)

wayne0

clearingout wrote: »

When exactly did you speak to them on the phone for the first time? Have you received any paperwork in the meantime?

no paperwork, just a call around end of september.... i spoke with PWC, and she agreed that as long as i sent it as £60 every 4 weeks it'll be ok... (which is what she wanted) £60 in one lump is too much... so i said to pay it fortnightly, as im paid fornightly...

then CSA were working in the BG... ive sent a payment of £60 on 15th oct, and CSA says it doesnt even count as a payment... as it will be treated as a "gift"

(oh btw - she was unhappy that i was every other pay - paying her EARLY not LATE - so as payment didnt clash with the same week my rent went out.)

clearingout

wayne0 wrote: »

7% charge levied (so £3.50) i really think she will want to remain on it to see me pay the extra £10 etc... (bit of a joke really isnt it)

No, it's not joke. The stats on the CSA as it stands is that it costs 40p to get £1 of maintenance at no cost to anyone other than the tax payer. It's clearly not sustainable. Many people wrongly believe that they must use the CSA when they separate and ultimately, it is acknowledged that parents should really be able to communicate and sort these things out for themselves. Whether or not it improves things remains to be seen - I am personally incredibly sceptical - but if it helps some people remove themselves from the systematic errors of the CSA then that will be something.

The plans as they stand will not allow your ex to remain using the CSA if you are willing to pay regularly, as I previously said. However, should you begin to default on payments, this will take away your right to making payments off your own back and put it back into the hands of the CSA. This seems incredibly fair to me - and is ultimately in the best interests of the children.

Caz3121

wayne0 wrote: »

so when they expect to take £50 orff me for one child, how can they say i can support two kids (one who is newborn) on £60?

I do agree that the inclusion of child tax credits in a bit unfair but to balance it out they would not be able to give a discount for the other children.
Based on your income as they have taken it that would leave you paying a straight 15% or £37.50...however that is not the way they currently work it.

I don't think they are saying you can support 2 kids on £60 and the other is £50.
The £50 will represent 12% of your income leaving 88% for you and your family

Some people cannot afford to have second families and it is only right that the first children should not be disadvantaged at your choice to have more

wayne0

well. i spoke to a manager today, and he was very "pleasant" and spoke to me, etc, and did "what he could" to "help" me... (5 weeks on, and ive got over 200 quid of debt, but that will be slashed by "voluntry payments" i made online (so now just a little over 100).

he explained the variations (but didnt give me figures) so i can claim for travel costs ... i explained i drive 140 mile trips each visit ( so it costs at least 35 quid a visit... (so this works about a fiver reduction in my payments... he also advised me to send in updated pay slips because the first one they had was for 200 quid more than the other two (i had a holiday, and holiday pay is always added onto the following payslip where i work, because holidays run mon - sun, and wages are sun to sat etc ) so this 200 quid knocks my wages up by about 35 quid a week, which is why i believed they hadnt deducted tax...

and best of all, since the pay slips covered the period starting the claim date, it can be back dated to the claim date (so about £5 reduction...)... so he said he cant give a definiate figure, but would work out that my payment would be about £10 a month less... (with petrol/etc) which would mean at least i will be able to see my son.

next he mentioned the 1/7th thing for overnight contact... but 1/7th of 40 quid would work out less than the travel costs... and you can only claim either travel or the reduction of payment for night contact? (is this true?) - travel costs are more than the 1/7th... (even the 15%)

but during the call. he mentioned "protected income"... but when i asked him what that was, he changed the subject...

can somebody give me details of this protected income?

i cant seem to find any detailed info about it? just a few examples for DOE etc saying "protected income is 100, if the payment is 30 but he only earns 120 only 20 can be taken and 10 has to be carried forward" ...

it doesnt show how the protected income is worked out...