car seizures by police for no insurance

Wig

Oh no, it's another one of these threads I didn't read the thread before replying. :wall:

(2) Where a person satisfies paragraph (1)(a) and (b) but cannot satisfy paragraph (1)(c), and nominates for this purpose a third person who produces a valid certificate of insurance covering that person’s use of that vehicle and a valid driving licence authorising that person to drive that vehicle, the authorised person shall permit that person to remove the vehicle from his custody.

There we go, it's as clear as a pikestaff! You were wrong on both counts.

System

The police stop you under RTA (normally S165). A PNC check just shows that no insurance information is held not that there is no insurance. If you can prove to the police at the scene that your insurance covers DOC and the car does not need to be insured in its own right (normally by speaking to the insurers) then the police can not take any action.

CIE is enforced by DVLA under The Road Safety Act 2006 with the help of MIB. The police do not involve themselves with this as their only concern is RTA.

It may be interesting to look at what people who have to police the roads say http://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?/topic/114737-continous-insurance-enforcement/

dacouch

!!!!!! wrote: »

It is, providing there is tax and a current MOT then somebody with DOV on an LV policy driving that vehicle and doesn't leave it while on a public road then that is fine.

However there is the separate offence of not having a valid insurance on the vehicle when it is not SORN'd. The registered keeper of the vehicle will be guilty of this and not the driver with DOV.

This is where there there is a conflict

Technically it would not need an MOT to be covered by the policy, just roadworthy.

dacouch

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

How many times do I have to explain it???

Your insurance is not valid if the vehicle isn't legal to be on the road. If it doesn't have it's own insurance, then it isn't legally on the road. So anybody driving it under DOV would find their insurance void, unless it is a trader policy.

Again this is wrong, your Insurance Policy or Certificate does not specify the car has to "Legal" to be on the road.

An Insurer does not specify that a car has to be Taxed, not sorned or even have an MOT. Some do specify a car has to have a current MOT but this is entirely unenforcable and an Insurer cannot deny a claim solely for their being no MOT or in anyway for not having an MOT.

I'd be impressed if you can find an Insurance policy that in any way specified that the car must be "Legal to be on the road".

Once again, there are plenty of Insurers who do not specify the car you're driving under DOC must be Insured and thus those policies do not require the other car to be insured for them to provide third party liability cover.

photome

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::T:T:T:T

Jamie_Carter

!!!!!! wrote: »

Yes it would, it meets the requirements of having tax, having MOT if required and covered by a valid insurance policy while that driver is in the vehicle

However as said, the vehicle keeper is still committing an offence (not the driver) because there is no insurance explicitly against the vehicles registration. This does not make the vehicle illegal to be on the road however if the conditions above are met.

The vehicle would not be insured. I have explained this enough times. If you don't believe me then go down to your local police station and ask them.

DOV insurance covers you to drive somebody elses vehicle, when the insurance on that vehicle doesn't cover other drivers. But the vehicle MUST have it's own insurance, otherwise it will not be road legal, and the DOV insurance will be void.

Try taxing your vehicle on line with DOV insurance....you can't do it.

The only people who can legally drive a car that doesn't have it's own insurance are those with traders insurance

Jamie_Carter

Wig wrote: »

Rubbish, (if you are talking purely about DOC cover)

However, (if you are talking about the police rules for releasing a vehicle) And you are saying the police impound rules require the released vehicle to be covered specifically named on a policy......... then have you got a link to the legislation that says that? As I did not know that.....In fact I think I did for a friend just a few years ago, I remember I had to be the one to say I would be driving the vehicle out of the lot, the only reason that would be the case is if I was using my DOC extension.

Looks like you are part of the problem then.

If you tried doing that now, then it wouldn't work. Because if they allowed the vehicle out of the pound, then they would be allowing the keeper to commit an offence.

Tilt

Jesus! the thread is about getting the car released. Well according to this,
http://www.ukpolicing.info/Portals/0/NewsServer.aspx?ID=657 the RK needs to fulfill his obligation to insure the car and then if he can't drive it then a nominated third party with a DOC policy can (assuming that the relevant certificates are produced at the pound).

Jamie_Carter

dacouch wrote: »

Again this is wrong, your Insurance Policy or Certificate does not specify the car has to "Legal" to be on the road.

An Insurer does not specify that a car has to be Taxed, not sorned or even have an MOT. Some do specify a car has to have a current MOT but this is entirely unenforcable and an Insurer cannot deny a claim solely for their being no MOT or in anyway for not having an MOT.

I'd be impressed if you can find an Insurance policy that in any way specified that the car must be "Legal to be on the road".

Once again, there are plenty of Insurers who do not specify the car you're driving under DOC must be Insured and thus those policies do not require the other car to be insured for them to provide third party liability cover.

Read it!!!!

Jamie_Carter

Tilt wrote: »

Jesus! the thread is about getting the car released. Well according to this,
http://www.ukpolicing.info/Portals/0/NewsServer.aspx?ID=657 the RK needs to fulfill his obligation to insure the car and then if he can't drive it then a nominated third party with a DOC policy can (assuming that the relevant certificates are produced at the pound).

Thanks for that link.

UNINSURED DRIVING CRACKDOWN MOVES STEP CLOSER


18 April 2011: A new system to tackle uninsured driving moved a step closer today as Road Safety Minister Mike Penning laid the final regulations in Parliament.

Under Continuous Insurance Enforcement it will be an offence to keep an uninsured vehicle, rather than just to drive when uninsured.

The regulations laid today will allow the DVLA to take action against those who ignore warnings to get their vehicle insured.

Mike Penning said:

"Uninsured drivers injure 23,000 people each year and add £30 to every responsible motorist’s premium so we need to do everything we can to keep them off the roads.

“These new powers will help us to take targeted action while freeing up police time to deal with the hard core of offenders.”

Under the new system:

• The DVLA will work in partnership with the Motor Insurers’ Bureau to identify uninsured vehicles.
• Motorists will receive a letter telling them that their vehicle appears to be uninsured and warning them that they will be fined unless they take action.
• If the keeper fails to insure the vehicle they will be given a £100 fine.
• If the vehicle remains uninsured - regardless of whether the fine is paid - it could then be clamped, seized and destroyed. The regulations laid in Parliament today would give the DVLA the powers to take this action.
• The vehicle will only be released when the keeper provides evidence that the registered keeper is no longer committing an offence of having no insurance and the person proposing to drive the vehicle away is insured to do so.

Vehicles with a valid Statutory Off Road Notice (SORN) will not be required to be insured.

It is planned for the first insurance advisory letters (which warn individuals that they appear to be uninsured) to be sent at the end of June following a publicity campaign to raise awareness of the CIE scheme.

The Motor Insurance Database (MID) will be used to identify registered keepers of vehicles that appear to have no insurance. All drivers can check their vehicle is recorded on the MID for free - visit http://www.askMID.com. UKPolicing.info Notes . . .

Latest estimates are that around 4% (around 1.4 million) of GB motorists drive uninsured. The penalty for driving without insurance is a maximum fine of £5,000 and 6-8 penalty points. Around 242,000 offenders are convicted for uninsured driving every year.

Currently every responsible motorist pays an average £30 each year within their premiums to cover crashes involving uninsured and untraced drivers. It is also estimated that uninsured and untraced drivers kill 160 people and injure 23,000 every year.

Measures already introduced in the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 gave police improved access to the Motor Insurers’ Bureau database and powers to seize vehicles. In 2009 around 180,000 vehicles were seized.

The Road Safety Act 2006 provided the primary powers for a new offence of being the keeper of a vehicle which does not meet insurance requirements. The offence of keeping a vehicle with no insurance came into force on 4 February 2011 commenced by the Road Safety Act 2006 (Commencement No. 6) Order 2011.

Supporting regulations which provided for exceptions to the offence came into force at the same time in the Motor Vehicles (Insurance Requirements) Regulations 2011). This instrument makes exceptions to that offence, provides that liability to conviction for the offence may be discharged by paying a fixed penalty of £100 and provides for the disclosure of information in connection with enforcement.

The Motor Vehicles (Insurance Requirements) (Immobilisation, Removal and Disposal) Regulations 2011 will allow persons authorised by the Secretary of State for Transport to fix an immobilisation devise (clamp) to vehicles where it is believed that an offence has been committed, and to remove and dispose of vehicles in relation to the offence of keeping a vehicle with no insurance. It also prescribes the release fee (£100) before the vehicle is released and the evidence individuals have to demonstrate in order to secure the release of the vehicle.

The Road Safety Act 2006 (Commencement No.7) Order 2011 is also made which will provide the mode of prosecution and specify the penalties for the new offences of interfering with or removing an immobilisation notice or device (clamp), and falsely displaying a disabled persons badge with the purpose of avoiding enforcement action.