Son dropping out of college-am I still entitled to tax credits

dktreesea

bestpud wrote: »

Vocational courses, apprenticeship, Princes Trust course, voluntary work....

All of those options still require the young person to be able to get a place. His access to any of those options depends on someone else allowing him access.

The theory is that the young person is guaranteed a place. Surely we should also want them to be engaged with the opportunity, to feel that it is the right opportunity for them?

Should a boy who fancies learning something in the construction industry have to choose between catering and media studies because all the construction related courses are full/oversubscribed and they are the only courses the college can offer him? This happened to one of my children's friends.

And then there's the stealthy hand of the current government, quietly clawing benefits back like there is no tomorrow. It used to be, for instances, that housing benefit wasn't cut if you had adult children under 25 living with you until they were in employment. How times change:

http://www.crisis.org.uk/pressreleases.php/531/charities-urge-rethink-on-plan-that-could-drive-up-youth-homelessness

bestpud

dktreesea wrote: »

All of those options still require the young person to be able to get a place. His access to any of those options depends on someone else allowing him access.

The theory is that the young person is guaranteed a place. Surely we should also want them to be engaged with the opportunity, to feel that it is the right opportunity for them?

Should a boy who fancies learning something in the construction industry have to choose between catering and media studies because all the construction related courses are full/oversubscribed and they are the only courses the college can offer him? This happened to one of my children's friends.

And then there's the stealthy hand of the current government, quietly clawing benefits back like there is no tomorrow. It used to be, for instances, that housing benefit wasn't cut if you had adult children under 25 living with you until they were in employment. How times change:

http://www.crisis.org.uk/pressreleases.php/531/charities-urge-rethink-on-plan-that-could-drive-up-youth-homelessness

If the alternative is sitting on their rear end at home all day then yes !

They can always do something!

You talk about being selected for things - well that's life! They need to understand they are not powerless victims and can do a lot to help themselves!

God help them though when their parents are sat navel gazing and wringing their hands in despair!

dktreesea

bestpud wrote: »

If the alternative is sitting on their rear end at home all day then yes !

They can always do something!

You talk about being selected for things - well that's life! They need to understand they are not powerless victims and can do a lot to help themselves!

God help them though when their parents are sat navel gazing and wringing their hands in despair!

Not quite. It could be the child doing the navel gazing. The parents may well be trying to lead their DD or DS towards suitable opportunities...and wringing their hands in despair when their children refuse. The effort on the part of the parents is all for naught if the young person doesn't fancy any of the "doing" bits they are being offered.

So what is it you propose? Going on and on at your children until they either comply with what you want - to hell with what they want - or end up with mental health problems due to all the grief and nagging?

This generation, from what I can see, don't all fancy being "wage slaves", nor acquiring the kind of education that would lead them into that life.

Dunroamin

dktreesea wrote: »

Not quite. It could be the child doing the navel gazing. The parents may well be trying to lead their DD or DS towards suitable opportunities...and wringing their hands in despair when their children refuse. The effort on the part of the parents is all for naught if the young person doesn't fancy any of the "doing" bits they are being offered.

So what is it you propose? Going on and on at your children until they either comply with what you want - to hell with what they want - or end up with mental health problems due to all the grief and nagging?

This generation, from what I can see, don't all fancy being "wage slaves", nor acquiring the kind of education that would lead them into that life.

I think that this must be one of the most over the top posts I've ever read - mental health problems because of parents nagging them to get a job - I've heard it all now!

Young people have to learn that, if they don't fancy being wage slaves, then they'll have empty lives on benefits. Caring parents don't allow their teenagers to choose this lifestyle.

dktreesea

Dunroamin wrote: »

I think that this must be one of the most over the top posts I've ever read - mental health problems because of parents nagging them to get a job - I've heard it all now!

Young people have to learn that, if they don't fancy being wage slaves, then they'll have empty lives on benefits. Caring parents don't allow their teenagers to choose this lifestyle.

Caring parents who work aren't always there for their children, literally. There's a limit to how much you get to influence your older teenage children if you don't walk through the door until 6 to 7 pm every evening. The way you are talking, you would think only the children of parents on benefits have these problems.

bestpud

dktreesea wrote: »

Not quite. It could be the child doing the navel gazing. The parents may well be trying to lead their DD or DS towards suitable opportunities...and wringing their hands in despair when their children refuse. The effort on the part of the parents is all for naught if the young person doesn't fancy any of the "doing" bits they are being offered.

So what is it you propose? Going on and on at your children until they either comply with what you want - to hell with what they want - or end up with mental health problems due to all the grief and nagging?

This generation, from what I can see, don't all fancy being "wage slaves", nor acquiring the kind of education that would lead them into that life.

Crikey! :eek:You are kidding, aren't you?

You're going to let them all wallow on their beds all day, playing computer games and whatever else they do, because they don't fancy doing anything too boring or strenuous, like getting up in the morning?!

Ok, here is what I'd do in that situation:

No money for them whatsoever - nothing!

Internet off after 10pm and all day while we are working or out of the house.

No food treats - I'd leave basic, healthy food and that would be it. No hot drinks - council pop will do.

They definitely wouldn't be bought clothes/fancy hair products, mobile phone credit.... I bet most of these precious layabouts have mobile phones - well, how?

All the kind of things they will need to consider before deciding whether working for a living is that bad after all.

They won't hold out long once you stop pandering to them and treating them like a delicate little flower who deserves to be looked after.

Getting them off their butt isn't the easy option, but our job is to put in the effort for long term gain. Good parenting isn't easy!

Let's be honest, parents are failing their kids if they let them behave like that. It's easy to blame the world and his dog, but really, you need to look closer to home.

Dunroamin

dktreesea wrote: »

Caring parents who work aren't always there for their children, literally. There's a limit to how much you get to influence your older teenage children if you don't walk through the door until 6 to 7 pm every evening. The way you are talking, you would think only the children of parents on benefits have these problems.

I certainly never implied that only parents on benefits have these problems, simply that low income parents have a more pressing financial reason to ensure that this doesn't happen.

All that's needed (in the vast majority of cases) is to do as bestpud says and show them very clearly that those who don't work or prepare for work have none of the comforts that employment brings: no gadgets, no luxuries, no paid social life, just boredom.

dktreesea

Dunroamin wrote: »

I certainly never implied that only parents on benefits have these problems, simply that low income parents have a more pressing financial reason to ensure that this doesn't happen.

All that's needed (in the vast majority of cases) is to do as bestpud says and show them very clearly that those who don't work or prepare for work have none of the comforts that employment brings: no gadgets, no luxuries, no paid social life, just boredom.

Low income parents would do well to look to their own ability to make money ahead of the taxpayer's ongoing willingness to provide for their children. I would prefer benefits were not such a function of how many children one has.

Finances aside though, dead end jobs are just that, dead end. Isn't it better we invest in appropriate education for our children, in vocational courses where they can get some skills to do some good, rather than wasting away in places like Poundland and similar for the rest of their lives?

Dunroamin

dktreesea wrote: »

Low income parents would do well to look to their own ability to make money ahead of the taxpayer's ongoing willingness to provide for their children. I would prefer benefits were not such a function of how many children one has.

Finances aside though, dead end jobs are just that, dead end. Isn't it better we invest in appropriate education for our children, in vocational courses where they can get some skills to do some good, rather than wasting away in places like Poundland and similar for the rest of their lives?

Well, I completely agree with your first paragraph. However, working in retail doesn't have to be a dead end job, particularly with the larger companies, many of whom will offer appropriate training and the chance to do additional qualifications. If they don't, the opportunity is available to take the traditional route of studying at evening classes.

There's just as much of a management structure to be climbed at BHS as there is at Barclays.


http://www.bhs.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogNavigationSearchResultCmd?catalogId=34096&storeId=13077&langId=-1&categoryId=538578&interstitial=true

poet123

dktreesea wrote: »

Not quite. It could be the child doing the navel gazing. The parents may well be trying to lead their DD or DS towards suitable opportunities...and wringing their hands in despair when their children refuse. The effort on the part of the parents is all for naught if the young person doesn't fancy any of the "doing" bits they are being offered.

So what is it you propose? Going on and on at your children until they either comply with what you want - to hell with what they want - or end up with mental health problems due to all the grief and nagging?

This generation, from what I can see, don't all fancy being "wage slaves", nor acquiring the kind of education that would lead them into that life.

I will try to avoid rant mode but statements such as you have made in the above post drive me to distraction.

A teenager doesn't just get to 16 and decide to sit at home all day unless they have been allowed to get into a mindset early on that such a choice is acceptable to those around them. You cannot start to mould a 16 year old, you have to start very early ti instil a work ethic and stress the importance of education.

There are, and increasingly there will be places available for every youngster leaving school who wants further training or a college course. The key is to apply early to get the course which interests you, do your homework, go and look around at open days. Be pro active.

Colleges spend ££££ on marketing and advertising, and yet in September there are students who wander in off the street and want to get on courses which are, by then, oversubscribed. They are the ones who moan about not getting what they want, and finding nothing interesting.

And as for not fancying being a "wage slave" is there really an acceptable alternative? Benefits, private income? Most of us are wage slaves, such is life, the sooner a youngster learns and accepts that the sooner they can make sure they enter a "slavery" which is passably enjoyable and pays enough to fund their choice of lifestyle. That is all any of us can really aspire to.

We do no our kids no favours by pandering to their whims about "finding themselves" or bolstering their desires to be a dotcom millionaire without any effort beyond gaming. They need to see that truly successful people are innovative, lateral thinkers, organised and driven, and that they see opportunity not obstacles. If parents send out the message that if you don't feel like doing something don't bother, we fail before we start. And as for nagging, persuasion and insistence leading to MH issues, words fail me.