MSE News: Energy firms must offer (not give) cheapest deals, says Ofgem

callum9999

victor2 wrote: »

It's really not a case of consumers who can't be arsed and it's certainly beyond primary school maths.
Perhaps you could explain at a primary school level, how the readings on their gas meters are converted to kWh, before you get on to the simplicity of how it's billed.

While education standards are falling, I can confirm they still teach addition and multiplication in primary school. Not that I understand why you need to do such work anyway - just look at the bill and it tells you what you've used in kWhs. It sounds like you're saying that in order to work out whether you can save elsewhere, you must have your exact usage information up to the exact minute of your search? It's far easier (and probably more accurate overall unless you've radically changed anything) to just put in your usage data for the last year (again, printed on the bill) into USwitch etc. and get quotes off that.

wantanswers wrote: »

You've not answered the question.

Why should people including the elderly have to shop around for utility prices,,,,,many (very many) old folk are not even on the internet? How will they be sure the are on the best deal?

Reference Sainsbury i don't know but I think ASDA do it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk9SOrtsEDA
Just fun.

No they don't. They provide a website where you can check (which the vast majority of people don't do), and then if they weren't cheaper they bribe you back with vouchers to make sure they were. The only reason ASDA do it is because they know they are normally cheaper so it's handy advertising for them - it's not really a suitable example for an industry-wide program of advising the use of your competitors!

Being elderly doesn't make you immune from life decisions. If they have an aversion to using the internet and don't know a single person who would be willing to do it for them (you say "very many" - when you include those with people who can help them do it, I'd wager that goes down to a negligible number), then they can either call or write to the other companies to get quotes. If they are even unable to do that, and they have no-one in their life to help, that enters a whole different topic of them receiving an inadequate level of care in general.

victor2

callum9999 wrote: »

While education standards are falling, I can confirm they still teach addition and multiplication in primary school. Not that I understand why you need to do such work anyway - just look at the bill and it tells you what you've used in kWhs. It sounds like you're saying that in order to work out whether you can save elsewhere, you must have your exact usage information up to the exact minute of your search? It's far easier (and probably more accurate overall unless you've radically changed anything) to just put in your usage data for the last year (again, printed on the bill) into USwitch etc. and get quotes off that.

Someone who understands that gas and electricity usage is measured in kWh, even if it's billed in £ may completely grasp what you are saying, and recognise that annual usage is much more realistic than just looking at a bill over the summer.
Just look how often on here, people say "I'm using £xx of gas and electricity a month, is it too much?"
Start talking kWh to your average pensioner, and you'll soon lose them. Given that a lot of educated young adults have no idea about mental arithmetic, you'll probably lose them too!

wantanswers

callum9999 wrote: »

No they don't. They provide a website where you can check (which the vast majority of people don't do), and then if they weren't cheaper they bribe you back with vouchers to make sure they were. The only reason ASDA do it is because they know they are normally cheaper so it's handy advertising for them - it's not really a suitable example for an industry-wide program of advising the use of your competitors!

Being elderly doesn't make you immune from life decisions. If they have an aversion to using the internet and don't know a single person who would be willing to do it for them (you say "very many" - when you include those with people who can help them do it, I'd wager that goes down to a negligible number), then they can either call or write to the other companies to get quotes. If they are even unable to do that, and they have no-one in their life to help, that enters a whole different topic of them receiving an inadequate level of care in general.

The Asda bit was meant not to be taken serious!

Being elderly certainly does not make you immune from life's decisions...I agree but as I have said very many OAP do not posses a PC let alone have access to the internet. Based on my experience with what these Energy Companies offer in the way of better Tariffs I would certainly be very cautious of Advising any Person, let alone just an Elder Person to change...I doubt if i could live with it if i got it wrong...not unlike others though!:)

wantanswers

victor2 wrote: »

Someone who understands that gas and electricity usage is measured in kWh, even if it's billed in £ may completely grasp what you are saying, and recognise that annual usage is much more realistic than just looking at a bill over the summer.
Just look how often on here, people say "I'm using £xx of gas and electricity a month, is it too much?"
Start talking kWh to your average pensioner, and you'll soon lose them. Given that a lot of educated young adults have no idea about mental arithmetic, you'll probably lose them too!

The first question you are asked when an Energy Operator contacts you be phone (apart from Hello How are you) is what is your annual usage ie KWhrs......My granny would just go blank and put the phone down, however of course they don't contacts Grannies do they!

"Start talking kWh to your average pensioner, and you'll soon lose them. Given that a lot of educated young adults have no idea about mental arithmetic, you'll probably lose them too!"

Couldn't agree more......

Pincher

Shopping for less is what people do every day.
We spend around £5,000 on groceries a year.
If we didn't shop around, buy on promotion, buy in bulk and get casback, it can easily be £7,000.

For Gas and electricity, the difference is £300 a year, if you care, do something about it.

wantanswers

Pincher wrote: »

For Gas and electricity, the difference is £300 a year, if you care, do something about it.

Show me please with a factual example?

jalexa

victor2 wrote: »

Start talking kWh to your average pensioner, and you'll soon lose them. Given that a lot of educated young adults have no idea about mental arithmetic, you'll probably lose them too!

Not nitpicking someone who knows their stuff but I want to make a slightly different point of the same equation. Noticed this article...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/bills/article-2220090/Energy-tariffs-explained-theres-bewildering-558-deals-offer.html

Note the opening remark ... "Customers wanting to cut their energy bills today are faced with 558 possible deals. Most consumers simply don’t have the time, inclination or knowledge to pick out the cheapest..."

Lets take "time". I don't believe that most people can't spare a few minutes once or twice a year with a comparison website. Considering "knowledge", everybody who has been with a supplier more that 12 months has an 'annual statement' giving the previous 12 months consumption in kWhrs.

[even if they didn't it is not well understood, even by some "experts", that for a wide range of actual consumption, mainly excepting very low users, a comparison website % difference figure is fairly accurate when compared using average consumption]

So now we come to "inclination". Why should people who are inclined, including those in fuel poverty, including pensioners, be disadvantaged because people not in fuel poverty, still in work so "I'm too busy, scr*w you", can't be *rsed?

I accept that comparison websites are not "perfect". I struggle during across the board market price movement to understand whether impending price movements are included or not.

But during last spring/summer there was no confusion and a range of competitive fixed-price offers available to anybody with a few minutes to spare.

I've said this before, I'll say it again "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". Though I'd credit most horses with more intelligence that most comparison "refuseniks".

victor2

Agree with most of the above, but also, in a little time I spend each week helping older people understand computers, I come across those who are afraid of the internet and computers in general.
Similarly, a 3 page utility bill, no matter how well it is worded to those who understand the basic concept, might as well be in a foreign language for such people.
That sort of person would have to ask somebody for some sort of assistance, but many accept it at face value and take the least line of resistance by doing nothing about it. Those that do receive help almost always appreciate it and tell their friends, but there must be many more that don't know how easy it often is to find a better deal.

wantanswers

victor2 wrote: »

Agree with most of the above, but also, in a little time I spend each week helping older people understand computers, I come across those who are afraid of the internet and computers in general.
Similarly, a 3 page utility bill, no matter how well it is worded to those who understand the basic concept, might as well be in a foreign language for such people.
That sort of person would have to ask somebody for some sort of assistance, but many accept it at face value and take the least line of resistance by doing nothing about it. Those that do receive help almost always appreciate it and tell their friends, but there must be many more that don't know how easy it often is to find a better deal.

I would also add.... I think about between 40% & 60% of the population don't even trust what they are being told.

wantanswers

Pincher wrote: »

For Gas and electricity, the difference is £300 a year, if you care, do something about it.

That really is an interesting statement Pincher, I really am interested in your example then maybe if correct I can pass it on as callum9999 suggests...it maybe even possible I can do it with confidence, even to a relative, even the whole street maybe! who know after that the Town maybe!