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Revelation Not For The Faint Hearted Its An Epic
in_debt_again_but_dealing_with_it
Posts: 1,337 Forumite
Tonight I experienced a revelation it suddenly occurred to me that to recognise why I have acquired so much debt in such a short time I need to look back, to purge myself and to lose my “self-obsession” because that is what I believe is ruining me. As a cathartic exercise I’m reflecting on my life till now an exercise of epic proportions. I’m posting because the anonimty of the forum means I can be totally and brutally honest, I have no hidden agenda, my only hope is that from this I can move forward. Whilst not essentially about money and probably quite inappropriate for the forum I feel I am among “virtual” friends – something sadly lacking in my “real” life.
If there is anyone reading this please bear in mind these are just “snapshots” of my life and many things I have never revealed before. It will almost certainly concentrate on the bad things that have happened but there have been many happy times too!
I am the youngest of five children in the birth order, brother, sister, brother, brother, me. I was born in a council house in 1964, my mum started work part time when I was 2 and my dad is a carpenter – we were a typical working class family. My dad started drinking when I was born (my mum had me at home on her own cause dad was up the pub and came home to find me there!) he’s never drank spirits and he doesn’t drink at home, but he would often go to the pub straight from work and stay there till it had closed. The pub was at the top of my road and I used to watch from my bedroom to see if he would come straight home or go to the pub. He was/is a “gentle” Irish man, not violent but not a “family” man either he was a dad in name only. The rows were awful, mum would shout and dad would apologise and promise it wouldn’t happen again but it always did. Sometimes mum would pack his case and leave it by the front door I would drag it back upstairs and unpack it, leave notes on their pillow telling them how much I loved them and asking mum not to shout and dad to come home for his dinner before going up the pub. It never seemed to bother the others, though I’m sure it did! My mum started telling me to go and fetch my dad from the pub and soon I’d go before she asked in the hope that she’d think he’d come home of his own accord. When I look back I wonder how my mum coped, she raised the 5 of us alone yet we always had lovely Christmas presents, Christmas was always spoiled by dads drinking, we always had a summer holiday generally happy times cause this was the one time a year we all went out together. How my mum afforded it I never know she managed the money so well and whilst we weren’t dressed in Marks and Spencers we were always clean, clothed and well fed.
When I was about 6 my eldest brother who was then 14 began abusing me. It didn’t go on for long, (omg this is hard to write), he made me perform oral sex and on another occasion came into my bedroom whilst I was changing and my mum and auntie were downstairs and put a pencil inside me and asked if it hurt. He told me people in outerspace were always watching me (he was really in sci-fi) I remember feeling scared, ashamed and embarrassed and having to go back downstairs like nothing had happened. I have never discussed it with him or my brothers or sister (they knew), I told my husband soon after we were married and was shocked by his reaction – he just blanked it – I don’t suppose he knew what to say or do. I’ve never mentioned it since. We have family get togethers and play happy families, I could never confront my brother, it would break my parents hearts. My daughter is now 4 if her brothers of anyone did that to her I would kill them. Nobody protected me!
At 10 I began to take my disabled cousin to church and the to our Grandparents for Sunday dinner, she was lovely – physically disabled but bright as a button and we grew very close. On 23rd December 1978 she died unexpectedly in her sleep, she was 10 and I was 14, I was devastated – I don’t remember much else about that time.
I discovered boys about 6 months later and lost my virginity by the time I was 15. Fell in love with my first serious boyfriend who treated me terribly, sex always hurt and was never good – he humiliated me at every opportunity and I kept coming back for more!! Constant rejection and no one there just for me.
At 16 I joined a Youth Theatre group but never felt like I really belonged, I’ve never felt like I belonged anywhere!
I started going to a pub when I was 16.5 and met my next serious boyfriend, he started rejecting me and the same old story I kept coming back for more. I found out I was pregnant 4 weeks after we’d finished, mum was great but inisited on an abortion, I went to the clinic, came round after the procedure to be told that they’d been unable to open my cervix and that I’d have to return in two weeks!! The night before the 2nd procedure I went to the pub, dad had a go at me when I came in, I went to bed and cried out for my mum she never came, I cried myself to sleep.
I was closest to my second eldest brother, he was in the army and away a lot but we always got on well. When I was 17, 6 months after the abortion, he was killed in an accident on his army base he died on 25th December 1981. I was devastated, we all were, he had just turned 21 on 3rd December. We are a family that just gets on with it and so that’s what we did.
Six months later I met my dh, his mum had died two weeks before we met and we just fell together and both knew it was special. We were engaged on my 18th birthday, two weeks before he started his basic army training. We were married a year later, a week before my 19th birthday and two weeks before he went off on a tour of duty in the Falklands (not during the conflict).
He left the army 3 years later and we rented a house off my sister, we had a good social life, not much money but life was good. 1987 was OUR year, he got a well paid job meaning we could buy our own house and I fell pregnant and gave birth to No1 son! Two years later he left the well paid job because he hated it and took one for less money, even though I was working we struggled and nearly lost the house (threatened with repossession after missing just one payment). He began behaving oddly in October 1989 and admitted a date with a work colleague, he left but came back after just one night away, no apologies, no begging for forgiveness. I felt responsible, had an awful few months but got on with it.
Two miscarriages followed in 1991 and 1992 then April 1992 fell pregnant and delivered no2 son, when he was seven months fell pregnant again and no3 son arrived in 1994 - money was tight, debts were high but life was good. When No3 son was 3 months old oh got sacked for gross misconduct (practical joke backfired). He found a job for less money by which time we were struggling to cope financially. DH never dealt with money ever it was always down to me even though I was never very good at it! Discovered CCCS and started a DMP.
January 2000 discovered my husband was having another affair, with a colleague from work, life was crap. He again never begged forgiveness, no apologies, I felt responsible! We decided money was the root of the problem (or lack of it) and decided to sell the house repay the debts, rent for a while then rejoin the housing market. He left his job and got a lower paid one, we sold the house really quickly and began renting from my cousin. Things were better no debt and the prospect of buying a house in the near future … wrong July 2000 DH suffered a near fatal heart attack at only 39 years old, thankfully made a full recovery but couldn’t return to his trade as a HGV Mechanic as it was too strenuous. Wouldn’t get a mortgage on my salary alone and the housing market had soared so the prospect of us buying a house faded. The Gods were looking down on us though and within 4 months DH managed to get a job with tied accommodation we thought all our Christmases had come at once. New house, new job and no debts what a new start!! Moved in Christmas 2000, I discovered I was pregnant September 2001 and then discovered in November 2001my husband was having an affair with a teacher at the school – somebody he had encouraged me to be friends with, somebody he had insisted I show the scan photo to, somebody he insisted we go out as a couple with. I was 16 weeks pregnant, I had nowhere to go, I had 3 sons who loved their dad. Life was hell he claimed to love her and she him. This went on for weeks – I forced his hand and he begged me to stay then pined after her like a lovesick puppy! Still no apology, no begging for forgiveness I just got on with it.
Our beautiful daughter was thankfully born healthy in April 2002 and very slowly things got better. Until February 2004 when he revealed he was subject to an investigation accused of misconduct based on the fact that he’d tried to kiss his cleaner. I suspected him, but supported him thankfully he just received a written warning. I was shattered - I’ve never felt quite good enough, he isn’t cruel, is a brilliant dad but I always feel that maybe I trapped him and never confront him about the past because I might not like his answer – how pathetic is that. But this is where the debt comes in, its almost like to compensate for me not being good enough I spend freely but on nothing – no fancy holidays, no posh car and no flash clothes but lots of money on lots of nothing – does that make sense??
I am now in debt to the tune of £29,500 after consolidation and cc increase etc etc. But this debt is simply a symptom that much now I know, am I prepared to treat the illness, I just don’t know. For the time being its in remission (at least the spending is). My reality is my DH knows nothing of my debt (its all in my name) I have 4 children who are happy and healthy and of whom I’m very proud and love dearly, am almost through my first year at university, am going back to work part-time and despite everything I love my husband. Which way now?
My one purely childish selfish wish is that I had someone who was there for me, someone who would fight the devil to protect me but at 42 I know it ain’t gonna happen. I have a wall around me, have never fitted in and am scared of peoples judgement of me. Please don’t think I’m feeling sorry for myself – I’m not I’m more inclined to think “I’ve made my bed ..” – Thanks for listening.
IDA
xx
If there is anyone reading this please bear in mind these are just “snapshots” of my life and many things I have never revealed before. It will almost certainly concentrate on the bad things that have happened but there have been many happy times too!
I am the youngest of five children in the birth order, brother, sister, brother, brother, me. I was born in a council house in 1964, my mum started work part time when I was 2 and my dad is a carpenter – we were a typical working class family. My dad started drinking when I was born (my mum had me at home on her own cause dad was up the pub and came home to find me there!) he’s never drank spirits and he doesn’t drink at home, but he would often go to the pub straight from work and stay there till it had closed. The pub was at the top of my road and I used to watch from my bedroom to see if he would come straight home or go to the pub. He was/is a “gentle” Irish man, not violent but not a “family” man either he was a dad in name only. The rows were awful, mum would shout and dad would apologise and promise it wouldn’t happen again but it always did. Sometimes mum would pack his case and leave it by the front door I would drag it back upstairs and unpack it, leave notes on their pillow telling them how much I loved them and asking mum not to shout and dad to come home for his dinner before going up the pub. It never seemed to bother the others, though I’m sure it did! My mum started telling me to go and fetch my dad from the pub and soon I’d go before she asked in the hope that she’d think he’d come home of his own accord. When I look back I wonder how my mum coped, she raised the 5 of us alone yet we always had lovely Christmas presents, Christmas was always spoiled by dads drinking, we always had a summer holiday generally happy times cause this was the one time a year we all went out together. How my mum afforded it I never know she managed the money so well and whilst we weren’t dressed in Marks and Spencers we were always clean, clothed and well fed.
When I was about 6 my eldest brother who was then 14 began abusing me. It didn’t go on for long, (omg this is hard to write), he made me perform oral sex and on another occasion came into my bedroom whilst I was changing and my mum and auntie were downstairs and put a pencil inside me and asked if it hurt. He told me people in outerspace were always watching me (he was really in sci-fi) I remember feeling scared, ashamed and embarrassed and having to go back downstairs like nothing had happened. I have never discussed it with him or my brothers or sister (they knew), I told my husband soon after we were married and was shocked by his reaction – he just blanked it – I don’t suppose he knew what to say or do. I’ve never mentioned it since. We have family get togethers and play happy families, I could never confront my brother, it would break my parents hearts. My daughter is now 4 if her brothers of anyone did that to her I would kill them. Nobody protected me!
At 10 I began to take my disabled cousin to church and the to our Grandparents for Sunday dinner, she was lovely – physically disabled but bright as a button and we grew very close. On 23rd December 1978 she died unexpectedly in her sleep, she was 10 and I was 14, I was devastated – I don’t remember much else about that time.
I discovered boys about 6 months later and lost my virginity by the time I was 15. Fell in love with my first serious boyfriend who treated me terribly, sex always hurt and was never good – he humiliated me at every opportunity and I kept coming back for more!! Constant rejection and no one there just for me.
At 16 I joined a Youth Theatre group but never felt like I really belonged, I’ve never felt like I belonged anywhere!
I started going to a pub when I was 16.5 and met my next serious boyfriend, he started rejecting me and the same old story I kept coming back for more. I found out I was pregnant 4 weeks after we’d finished, mum was great but inisited on an abortion, I went to the clinic, came round after the procedure to be told that they’d been unable to open my cervix and that I’d have to return in two weeks!! The night before the 2nd procedure I went to the pub, dad had a go at me when I came in, I went to bed and cried out for my mum she never came, I cried myself to sleep.
I was closest to my second eldest brother, he was in the army and away a lot but we always got on well. When I was 17, 6 months after the abortion, he was killed in an accident on his army base he died on 25th December 1981. I was devastated, we all were, he had just turned 21 on 3rd December. We are a family that just gets on with it and so that’s what we did.
Six months later I met my dh, his mum had died two weeks before we met and we just fell together and both knew it was special. We were engaged on my 18th birthday, two weeks before he started his basic army training. We were married a year later, a week before my 19th birthday and two weeks before he went off on a tour of duty in the Falklands (not during the conflict).
He left the army 3 years later and we rented a house off my sister, we had a good social life, not much money but life was good. 1987 was OUR year, he got a well paid job meaning we could buy our own house and I fell pregnant and gave birth to No1 son! Two years later he left the well paid job because he hated it and took one for less money, even though I was working we struggled and nearly lost the house (threatened with repossession after missing just one payment). He began behaving oddly in October 1989 and admitted a date with a work colleague, he left but came back after just one night away, no apologies, no begging for forgiveness. I felt responsible, had an awful few months but got on with it.
Two miscarriages followed in 1991 and 1992 then April 1992 fell pregnant and delivered no2 son, when he was seven months fell pregnant again and no3 son arrived in 1994 - money was tight, debts were high but life was good. When No3 son was 3 months old oh got sacked for gross misconduct (practical joke backfired). He found a job for less money by which time we were struggling to cope financially. DH never dealt with money ever it was always down to me even though I was never very good at it! Discovered CCCS and started a DMP.
January 2000 discovered my husband was having another affair, with a colleague from work, life was crap. He again never begged forgiveness, no apologies, I felt responsible! We decided money was the root of the problem (or lack of it) and decided to sell the house repay the debts, rent for a while then rejoin the housing market. He left his job and got a lower paid one, we sold the house really quickly and began renting from my cousin. Things were better no debt and the prospect of buying a house in the near future … wrong July 2000 DH suffered a near fatal heart attack at only 39 years old, thankfully made a full recovery but couldn’t return to his trade as a HGV Mechanic as it was too strenuous. Wouldn’t get a mortgage on my salary alone and the housing market had soared so the prospect of us buying a house faded. The Gods were looking down on us though and within 4 months DH managed to get a job with tied accommodation we thought all our Christmases had come at once. New house, new job and no debts what a new start!! Moved in Christmas 2000, I discovered I was pregnant September 2001 and then discovered in November 2001my husband was having an affair with a teacher at the school – somebody he had encouraged me to be friends with, somebody he had insisted I show the scan photo to, somebody he insisted we go out as a couple with. I was 16 weeks pregnant, I had nowhere to go, I had 3 sons who loved their dad. Life was hell he claimed to love her and she him. This went on for weeks – I forced his hand and he begged me to stay then pined after her like a lovesick puppy! Still no apology, no begging for forgiveness I just got on with it.
Our beautiful daughter was thankfully born healthy in April 2002 and very slowly things got better. Until February 2004 when he revealed he was subject to an investigation accused of misconduct based on the fact that he’d tried to kiss his cleaner. I suspected him, but supported him thankfully he just received a written warning. I was shattered - I’ve never felt quite good enough, he isn’t cruel, is a brilliant dad but I always feel that maybe I trapped him and never confront him about the past because I might not like his answer – how pathetic is that. But this is where the debt comes in, its almost like to compensate for me not being good enough I spend freely but on nothing – no fancy holidays, no posh car and no flash clothes but lots of money on lots of nothing – does that make sense??
I am now in debt to the tune of £29,500 after consolidation and cc increase etc etc. But this debt is simply a symptom that much now I know, am I prepared to treat the illness, I just don’t know. For the time being its in remission (at least the spending is). My reality is my DH knows nothing of my debt (its all in my name) I have 4 children who are happy and healthy and of whom I’m very proud and love dearly, am almost through my first year at university, am going back to work part-time and despite everything I love my husband. Which way now?
My one purely childish selfish wish is that I had someone who was there for me, someone who would fight the devil to protect me but at 42 I know it ain’t gonna happen. I have a wall around me, have never fitted in and am scared of peoples judgement of me. Please don’t think I’m feeling sorry for myself – I’m not I’m more inclined to think “I’ve made my bed ..” – Thanks for listening.
IDA
xx
I stopped smoking 25th June 2007
STILL Never complacent but confident
My debt is GOING DOWN!!!!
0
Comments
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Good morning
After reading your post I wouldn't say you need to lose your self obsession.
You have been through an awful lot for one life time and IMO there are problems you need to address so you can move on with a new found sense of emotional freedom and happiness.
Have you ever seen a counselor about the sexual abuse you have endured?
It might be worth going to your GP or ringing one of the abuse charitys if you prefer anonimity for advice and support.
If your husband was mine...he would have had his testicles chopped off by now and served to him with divorce papers. HOWEVER...If you love him and feel as though you can make the marriage work it may well be worth your time going to see a marriage guidance counselor. His behaviour is selfish and irresponsible and he really needs to sort his issues out too.
It's about time he spent less time looking for affairs and more time working on the marriage he has.
Regarding your debts, Post your statement of affairs and maybe the lovely people on here will be able to help you cut back in areas you hadn't thought about.
Your debts are manageable and as you get on the road to debt freedom and start paying your debts off you will gain in confidence in your fantastic abilities to deal with anything and everything.
You're a survivor...you have had many sad and bad things happen to you in life but you're still standing...and most importantly fighting on.
In my opinion you need to be more SELFISH.
What do you want out of life? Where do you want to go? What kind of partner do you want to have? Do you want a new job? To open a business? Move home? Have more friends? Start going out more with the girls?
Write down the kind of life you want and don't stop until you achieve those things.
You deserve a life, not just an existence.
I hope you find the happiness you deserve.
Keep your chin up, you'll get there.
All the best
X X X0 -
Hi,
I whole heartedly agree with bambywamby.. particularly the bit about his testicles!
I would also like to second the idea about seeing a counsellor - is their anyone available at Uni?
You can't change the past, but sometimes we can be helped to deal with the future better and focus on solutions.
Be selfish - but that doesn't mean spending! and learn to think more about yourself rather than worry about other people's opinions. You sound rather super to me - a great mother and a university student!
Take care,
Pippo0 -
Hello In Debt Again
I agree with what the other posters have said. From your sig, you're obviously dealing with the debts, but if you haven't posted an soa, there may be other things to do, that you haven't thought of, that wil help you.
Seeing someone to talk to is also really important - I think you know, from your first paragraph, that you need to deal with the trauma from your past. That means paying more, but healthier, attention to yourself. I'm not sure, of course, but "obsession" as I know it isn't healthy or resolving, it doesn't go anywhere or help you, and its very different from looking at yourself and your relationship with the world honestly. Thats what you've started to do in your post already, to honestly explore and I am full of admiration for your managing to survive and raise your children.
Please keep posting, keep thinking, keep exploring. I wish you the best.2023: the year I get to buy a car0 -
Hi IDA, I hope you don't mind me saying this but based on what you wrote, I feel that you will never be truly happy as long as you are with your husband. He seems to treat you like a doormat and (probably because of the male role models in your childhood) you continue to let him. He takes no interest in your finances and seems to be on a downward spiral jobwise, with every opportunity lost because he can't keep his hands off his co-workers. If someone cheats so many times then it's likely they will always cheat, with the effect of lowering your already rock bottom self-asteem.
It's great that you are doing the university course, there is nothing like taking control of your future to give you a good dose of self-esteem. Do yourself a favour and ditch the millstone of a husband. Once he's off the scene you never know who'll turn up in your life.
Hope you don't mind this dose of "tough love", but I think that some people in our lives are good for us and some are bad. I think you know which camp your husband is in.
Take care,
DD.Mortgage Free in 3 Years (Apr 2007 / Currently / Δ Difference)
[strike]● Interest Only Pt: £36,924.12 / £ - - - - 1.00 / Δ £36,923.12[/strike] - Paid off! Yay!!
● Home Extension: £48,468.07 / £44,435.42 / Δ £4032.65
● Repayment Part: £64,331.11 / £59,877.15 / Δ £4453.96
Total Mortgage Debt: £149,723.30 / £104,313.57 / Δ £45,409.730 -
I agree with Dithering Dad I'm afraid. You don't sound self-obsessed to me, just lonely and very down. Your self-esteem is non-existant and being with your husband just compounds that. You should have thrown him out years ago! I hope one day that you'll have the strength to do this as I think you'd feel better, not worse as you might think you would.
It's brilliant that you're back at uni etc. I wish you lots of luck.0 -
Thanks for the replies - my computer won't let me thank you personally!! This morning I'm feeling very vunerable, do I regret the post? Yes probably am more used to self protection/preservation than exposure and I feel naked and scared. What is completely mad is noone who knows me in my "real" life has a clue how I'm feeling - I trust and confide in noone. I feel like there are two of me, the confident mother of 4 who is there for everyone and the "real" me still a young child looking for someone to be "there" for me. I'm sorry but that sounds so pathetic, I'm a 42 year old working mother, mature student and to the outside world totally together, if I'm shaking exposing this on an anonymous website how can I possibly ever confront the emotional stuff in real life. Its so much easier to carry on as I have, but it is beginning to feel increasingly wrong, how do I change my life. I have nowhere to go, our house is tied to my husbands job, my dd is at the school we live at, they have a huge garden and playground to play in - how can I take them away from that to what would likely be a council house in the worst area of the city! My dh is basically a good man (although I agree with removing his testacles to a point) he is a good father, but a useless husband, I often feel more like his mother than his wife (but surely that is my fault as that is the role I've chosen??) but I am equally as bad because I have never told him how I feel (perhaps in the past but without success so I stopped trying) my life has always been about supporting the people I love and being there for them. Whilst I say I want someone just for me could I reveal my true self or would I simply slip back into the role they want me to play. Sorry this is turning into an epic again but as an emotional diary it actually feels quite enlightening. Thanks once again for your good wishes.
IDA
xxI stopped smoking 25th June 2007STILL Never complacent but confidentMy debt is GOING DOWN!!!!0 -
Hi thanks for sharing your story you sound like a couragous person that puts others first.
It sounds like uni has made you sit and look at your life in a different way, I agree with the poster that asked if there was a counseller you could access through uni, it might help to talk some of these things through.
Good luck0 -
sorry wrong post0
-
sweetie, I think you got the problem wrong in the first post, you are not self obsessed, but you should be! In all this I see you staying with a bad husband as he is a good father, but he would still be a good father to your kids if you left. I'm sorry if I speak out of turn, at the end of the day the decision is yours, but I would have left this man a long long time ago. After all you have gone through you deserve someone who worships you and treats you as you deserve. One affair is almost excusable, several is unforgivable! I hate to say it, but do you even know the full extent of it? There may be more that he wasn't caught with.
I agree with the counselling suggestion, my university had a counselling service that was totally free and I think it would be a very good thing for you. It's an anonymous place you can talk about things that have happened and are happening to a professional who can help. I know it's easy to talk on here, I'm so like you in that the world thinks I'm strong and doing well but sometimes I'm falling apart inside and noone knows. I too have poured my heart out on here at times.
Please please please do not blame yourself or feel responsible for how your husband is, if you look at it from his point of view he did it once, you forgave him without demanding penance so he feels he can get away with it repeatedly, you need to make this cycle stop. Tell him you will not put up with it any longer and he'll have no choice but to make a decision. As for your kids, I grew up in a council flat in a fairly dodgy area of dundee yet I'm now 25, totally independent, own my own home, work hard for a living and am taking responsibilty for my debts. Not all council estate kids turn out bad, it's how you raise them that counts
0 -
Hi
I've just read your post and I think this is going to be a hard time for you but I think you have made the first steps to healing your self. I am in a rush now but two things spring to mind, I am a counsellor at a college and we offer the service for free and there is no waiting list so my point is maybe your University offer a similar service and you could build up a trusting relationship with a counsellor and do some serious talking (best thing in my opinion) and it sounds like that from child hood to now there hasn't really been any 'quality' talking time to for 'you' its surely time you took an hour a week for just you, you deserve it.
Also there is a book called 'The Inner Child' by Penny Parks it was designed to help adult victims of childhood abuse but the methods work just as effectively for anyone with relationship, behavioural and emotional problems. She has a website http://www.ppfoundation.org/ppf.asp (sorry no idea how to do links). It says on her website that the 'Inner Child’ has to be reached, imaginatively and creatively; ‘parenting’ done again by the Today Adult, so that the mistaken/faulty beliefs are re-imprinted into healthy positive enabling beliefs. PICT connects what we can know logically in our heads to our hearts in the form of positive self-beliefs. '
I have used this theory with some of my clients very sucessfully.
Good luck
By the way if you decide you want to buy the book you don't have to buy it from her site you may get it cheaper somewhere like Amazon or even order it at the library.0
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