bank acc overdrawn by payday loan

kabayiri

artanua wrote: »

speak no etiquettely challenging proverbs

Have a conversation with your local bank branch.

You will soon know if there has been a mistake on their part. Then you can pursue it.

It's unlikely, given the nature of the agreements people sign with PDLs, but that's not to say it's impossible.

For the sake of future people in a similar position, it would be useful if you report back here the results of your enquiry.

Conrad2

No matter what else is being said here, it seems very improper that your bank made a payment to a company that directly made you overdrawn by so much, and without an agreement.

If they simply paid the money, making you overdrawn, and making you subject to various charges, then they are on very dodgy ground as it could be argued that they have acted irresponsibly with regard to your account, and that they forced a debt on you without an agreement.

If 'wonga' and your bank are part of the same group, and thus legally entitled to take money from other accounts, they should not have exceed any overdraft agreement you have. So, if that is what has happened, and they have exceeded your agreed overdraft (£0) you may have something to complain about. If this is what is at the root, it could be that they have changed your agreement without consultation, which could put them in a serious legal position.

If you do want to sort this out, you should go to citizens advice and let them know what has occurred, but you must be honest or it will backfire on you should you pursue it. You should also consider, as has been mentioned, that you may actually be better off in this situation as it currently stands.

If probity is of no concern to you, you are likely to get into some pretty serious financial trouble, and options to act even the way you have done so far will be more difficult to come by. But if you are in a hole and have no idea how to get out, and react to everything with decisions that only make things worse, you will be best off holding your hands up and asking for advice to get it sorted. It is advice like that that this forum is good at giving - its reason for existing really. Generally, legal advice comes better elsewhere.

Thomas_The_Tank_Top

Conrad2 wrote: »

If they simply paid the money, making you overdrawn, and making you subject to various charges, then they are on very dodgy ground as it could be argued that they have acted irresponsibly with regard to your account, and that they forced a debt on you without an agreement.

That's the ticket mate. It's always somebody else's fault

opinions4u

Conrad2 wrote: »

No matter what else is being said here, it seems very improper that your bank made a payment to a company that directly made you overdrawn by so much, and without an agreement.

It's covered off in the terms and conditions of the bank account.

If they simply paid the money, making you overdrawn, and making you subject to various charges, then they are on very dodgy ground as it could be argued that they have acted irresponsibly with regard to your account, and that they forced a debt on you without an agreement.

The agreements that created the situation are twofold. The T&Cs with the banks and the T&Cs with the PDL company. It is ridiculous to suggest that there is no agreement in place to cover this.

If 'wonga' and your bank are part of the same group, and thus legally entitled to take money from other accounts, they should not have exceed any overdraft agreement you have.

But they are not part of the same group.

So, if that is what has happened, and they have exceeded your agreed overdraft (£0) you may have something to complain about.

Well not really. As the bank is acting on a customer's instruction to pay.

If this is what is at the root, it could be that they have changed your agreement without consultation, which could put them in a serious legal position.

You are talking complete nonsense. They don't need to consult to change T&Cs. Merely give notice.

Heffi1

The situation here is very simple as I have read the whole thread, my thoughts are that if at the very beginning of this saga you had NOT taken out a PDL then you would NOT be in this position today.

The PDL say very clearly, if you borrow money from us then we are going to take it back fully next payday. They apply to the bank account that YOU gave them and attempt to take their money. Your bank on receiving the request from the DPL let them have the money.

It is not rocket science. You were happy enough to take the money in the first place, now it is time to pay it back and with each day that you delay it gets larger...
Pay what you owe and learn a valuable lesson from it.

Any other way of looking at this is folly.

ALIBOBSY

Well OP you have had all the usual replies, lots of you are a numpty, pay up to the never wrong banks, you are damned by the T & C's etc etc.
Whilst I agree PDL are bad news and hope you learn the lesson from this never to use them again and get budgeting/saving after this those sort of posts aren't actually giving you any advice as to how to deal with things NOW.

Regarding the T & C's if that was the case no contracts would ever be challenged and voided in courts. The reality is the T & C's and any amendments have to been resonable and fair, in fact when it comes to banks many people don't know that the old banking codes that were voluntary are now actually enshrined in law, so the bank has a legal obligation to treat its customers fairly.

All that said the customer has to be proactive and cannot expect to borrow money and it all be written off on a technicality. I suspect wonga tried for the money once or twice and because the OP was already at or over their limit/arranged overdraft it was automatically refused. As soon as some money went into the account-final wages/benefits etc, wonga tried again and the bank had the descretion to refuse again, they effectively allowed the account to be pushed that far overdrawn. So the OP would have an arguement that their actions have unfairly pushed him well into an unauthorised overdraft for their benefit (extra charges/interest) not his and any charges and interest caused by that should be refunded.

So best bet for the OP is to have a calm chat to their own bank and discuss freezing of interest charges given the above and set out a payment plan to clear the overdraft ASAP. If the bank reverse the payment so you own the PDL again this time don't hide your head in the sand and get in touch to again make a plan to pay it back.

Finally if you are claiming benefits get them paid into another account so they aren't swallowed up by the overdraft leaving nothing to live off, but ensure the arranged amount is paid into the overdrawn account in plenty of time each month.

Use this as an opportunity to clear all the overdraft and get a proper budget going. Its the best life lesson anyone can learn to live within your budget whether on benefits/a tight budget or a decent wage. Try to save something no matter how little from each payment you get whether weekly or monthly.

Good Luck
Ali x

opinions4u

Use this as an opportunity to clear all the overdraft and get a proper budget going. Its the best life lesson anyone can learn to live within your budget whether on benefits/a tight budget or a decent wage. Try to save something no matter how little from each payment you get whether weekly or monthly.

This is beautiful.

Conrad2

opinions4u wrote: »

It's covered off in the terms and conditions of the bank account.

Not if there isn't an overdraft agreement, which the OP stated there wasn't. T&Cs will state what actions/sanctions can be taken if the account goes overdrawn, but they will not say that the bank has the right to make the account overdrawn based on a moral decision.

opinions4u wrote: »

The agreements that created the situation are twofold. The T&Cs with the banks and the T&Cs with the PDL company. It is ridiculous to suggest that there is no agreement in place to cover this.

It is ridiculous and naive to suggest that there is. Such things are not just transferable just because someone is being naughty.

opinions4u wrote: »

But they are not part of the same group.

I don't beleive the real name of either the bank or the 'wonga' (a generic name that the OP said was not the real lender early on after a poster made the assumption), so unless you are the OP reposting against your own request, I don't imagine you have any clue whether this is true or not.

opinions4u wrote: »

Well not really. As the bank is acting on a customer's instruction to pay.

An instruction to pay is not an obligation to pay; where there are no funds, payment shouldn't be made. Based on your logic, If my bank are obliged to make any payment I put to them, I could instruct them to pay for a new Aston Martin and I'd get it. They don't even have any discretion in it. If the money wasn't there, they shouldn't have paid it. It would also suggest that if the borrower accidentally stuck an extra 0 on the end of the DD sum, the bank would be obliged to pay it even if the funds were not there. Not so I am afraid.

opinions4u wrote: »

You are talking complete nonsense. They don't need to consult to change T&Cs. Merely give notice.

You are talking complete nonsense. They are obliged by law to act responsibly, not judiciously.

meer53

As far as retailers are concerned, card payments are guaranteed if they have an authorisation code. Banks cannot stop these from debiting. The OP willingly gave their card details to Wonga (who are not part of any banking group) for payments to be claimed when due. Authorisation was given by the OP at that time. If a card payment is processed with a valid authorisation code, it WILL debit, whether the money is there or not.

The bank have not done anything wrong. The OP should think themselves lucky they are now out of the PDL trap, which is self inflicted.

opinions4u

Conrad2 wrote: »

Not if there isn't an overdraft agreement, which the OP stated there wasn't. T&Cs will state what actions/sanctions can be taken if the account goes overdrawn, but they will not say that the bank has the right to make the account overdrawn based on a moral decision.

Last time I'll respond to you as I suspect you're a wum.

It's not a moral decision. It's an authority from the account holder.

It is ridiculous and naive to suggest that there is. Such things are not just transferable just because someone is being naughty.

Who said anything about transferable? The authority to pay the PDL company is one agreement. The new overdraft at the bank is another.

I don't beleive the real name of either the bank or the 'wonga' (a generic name that the OP said was not the real lender early on after a poster made the assumption), so unless you are the OP reposting against your own request, I don't imagine you have any clue whether this is true or not.

I'm quite happy to be proved wrong here, but my understanding is that no UK high street bank owns any UK PDL company.

An instruction to pay is not an obligation to pay; where there are no funds, payment shouldn't be made. Based on your logic, If my bank are obliged to make any payment I put to them, I could instruct them to pay for a new Aston Martin and I'd get it.

There is a judgement call based on the risk to the bank. Invariably automated. But if you don't want an overdraft don't authorise payments on your account not covered by funds.

You are talking complete nonsense. They are obliged by law to act responsibly, not judiciously.

Responsibility is a two way street. Not allowing a payment can, in some circumstances, be seen as inappropriate too.

But I'm now convinced you are a wum.