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Car Warranty Claim Denied
Hello,
I've browsed this forum for a long time but never needed any real help until today and was wondering if anybody had any insight or past experience which may be able to help me.
Recently my car started making a funny noise in the engine department and i had a warranty with a company called Warranty Wise on my car. When i first heard the noise was in a morning when i turned the engine over before work, so i walked to work and contacted my local garage who then picked up the vehicle as i was advised on the phone by the warranty company not to drive the car if i thought there was any faults with it.
This was around 3 weeks ago, since then they have sent out an engineer to inspect the vehicle and the mechanic at my local garage informs me the Crank has broken on the car to which he suspected it might be something like an oil pump failure.
To cut a long story short my car has full service history and was taken in without being driven when i discovered the fault but i have just heard back from the warranty company today who have denied the claim with a long explanation saying that "it is the engineers opinion that he has not witnessed any evidence of a sudden mechanical breakage".
The rest i didnt really understand so i will just post below and see if you folks know how i can try and remedy the situation.
I believe they are trying to say that the car fault had already happened and therefore they will not pay out.
Can anybody help me with this or shed a possible light on which route i can take to remedy my car issues? My local garage says its likely to need a new engine so i imagine that is why they are trying to not approve the claim.
"After inspection of the vehicle by the independent engineer in its partially dismantled state it is the engineers opinion that he
has not witnessed any evidence of a sudden mechanical breakage.
The oil pump when viewed showed evidence of debris which had been ingested into the pump and which would suggest the
oil pump was capable of drawing oil during the failure,in the absence of any long standing external oil leak he therefore
concluded that the engine oil has been allowed to drop to a critical level where air has been drawn into the engines
lubrication system by the oil pump momentarily,this has resulted in the aeration and frothing of the lubricating oil,the effect of
aerated oil within the lubrication system is invariably apparent as big end shell damage due to the fact that this is where the
oil quality is most critical,the big end bearings have to withstand the actual combustion force and therefore require oil
pressure many times greater than is required by the main bearings or other friction surfaces within the engine.
The additional oil pressure known as hydrodynamic oil pressure is created within and by design of the main bearings,the
resultant damage does not necessarily cause immediate bearing failure but sufficiently damages the bearing interlay as to
start a process of deterioration which cannot be rectified by merely replenishing the oil level,it is for this reason that at the
time of the actual eventual bearing failure the oil level may be correct but the initial damage had occurred at some point
previously.
The condition would become evident in the form of increased mechanical engine noise in the form of a knock relative to
engine speed,this would deteriorate as the condition developed.
The vehicle in his opinion has been driven whilst in a failed state which has resulted in the damage now apparent to the level
of repairs required.
No sudden mechanical breakage was apparent to the oil pump for the condition,the engine oil having dropped to a critical
level where air has been drawn into the lubrication system."
Regards
I've browsed this forum for a long time but never needed any real help until today and was wondering if anybody had any insight or past experience which may be able to help me.
Recently my car started making a funny noise in the engine department and i had a warranty with a company called Warranty Wise on my car. When i first heard the noise was in a morning when i turned the engine over before work, so i walked to work and contacted my local garage who then picked up the vehicle as i was advised on the phone by the warranty company not to drive the car if i thought there was any faults with it.
This was around 3 weeks ago, since then they have sent out an engineer to inspect the vehicle and the mechanic at my local garage informs me the Crank has broken on the car to which he suspected it might be something like an oil pump failure.
To cut a long story short my car has full service history and was taken in without being driven when i discovered the fault but i have just heard back from the warranty company today who have denied the claim with a long explanation saying that "it is the engineers opinion that he has not witnessed any evidence of a sudden mechanical breakage".
The rest i didnt really understand so i will just post below and see if you folks know how i can try and remedy the situation.
I believe they are trying to say that the car fault had already happened and therefore they will not pay out.
Can anybody help me with this or shed a possible light on which route i can take to remedy my car issues? My local garage says its likely to need a new engine so i imagine that is why they are trying to not approve the claim.
"After inspection of the vehicle by the independent engineer in its partially dismantled state it is the engineers opinion that he
has not witnessed any evidence of a sudden mechanical breakage.
The oil pump when viewed showed evidence of debris which had been ingested into the pump and which would suggest the
oil pump was capable of drawing oil during the failure,in the absence of any long standing external oil leak he therefore
concluded that the engine oil has been allowed to drop to a critical level where air has been drawn into the engines
lubrication system by the oil pump momentarily,this has resulted in the aeration and frothing of the lubricating oil,the effect of
aerated oil within the lubrication system is invariably apparent as big end shell damage due to the fact that this is where the
oil quality is most critical,the big end bearings have to withstand the actual combustion force and therefore require oil
pressure many times greater than is required by the main bearings or other friction surfaces within the engine.
The additional oil pressure known as hydrodynamic oil pressure is created within and by design of the main bearings,the
resultant damage does not necessarily cause immediate bearing failure but sufficiently damages the bearing interlay as to
start a process of deterioration which cannot be rectified by merely replenishing the oil level,it is for this reason that at the
time of the actual eventual bearing failure the oil level may be correct but the initial damage had occurred at some point
previously.
The condition would become evident in the form of increased mechanical engine noise in the form of a knock relative to
engine speed,this would deteriorate as the condition developed.
The vehicle in his opinion has been driven whilst in a failed state which has resulted in the damage now apparent to the level
of repairs required.
No sudden mechanical breakage was apparent to the oil pump for the condition,the engine oil having dropped to a critical
level where air has been drawn into the lubrication system."
Regards
0
Comments
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Gloomendoom wrote: »I think they are trying to wriggle out of it by saying that you hadn't kept the oil in the engine topped up to the correct level.
Does indeed sound that way.
Did you regularly check the oil level, and are you convinced it never dropped below the minimum level?
If so, you could seek another independent assessment. However, I'd verify with the warranty company first that they would consider such a thing, and who would be acceptable to them to do one.
Could be that their T&C's state that their engineer's opinion is final!I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the In My Home MoneySaving, Energy and Techie Stuff boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com.
All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
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Yes I do regularly check and I've only just had it serviced to, i know because i had to send them out a confirmation of my service history,
last serviced on the 25th June 2012. And i check the oil every 10-14 days normally.
Sounds like I'm on a pretty sticky wicket
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It would have made a bit more than a funny noise if the crank had snapped.
Where was the evidence of having too little oil in the engine?
Have the garage drained all the oil? How much was there? Oil stain on the road where it broke down?Censorship Reigns Supreme in Troll City...0 -
If so, you could seek another independent assessment. However, I'd verify with the warranty company first that they would consider such a thing, and who would be acceptable to them to do one.
Could be that their T&C's state that their engineer's opinion is final!
I'd be getting an independent report, whether they found it acceptable or not.... how can they prevent it? I'd be paying.
As for the T&Cs. They don't stop a court claim if the Independent engineers view differed substantially from their "in house" chap (who is very unlikely to be impartial).Always try to be at least half the person your dog thinks you are!0 -
whats the opnion of the garage its at now?
seems to me they have no evidence that the oil levels were so low it caused the problem.
they also say there appears to be no substantial oil leak.
so theyre basing the refusal on theory.
you have a recent service sheet that shows a replenishment of new oil (unless the dealership or garage you took it to didnt fill it up correctly).
when did you buy this car?0 -
Of course they couldn't prevent it, but it might be a waste of money if they refused to consider it.I'd be getting an independent report, whether they found it acceptable or not.... how can they prevent it? I'd be paying.
That's a good point. But you'd have to believe you're in a strong legal position to win a claim - and be able to front the money for it.As for the T&Cs. They don't stop a court claim if the Independent engineers view differed substantially from their "in house" chap (who is very unlikely to be impartial).I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the In My Home MoneySaving, Energy and Techie Stuff boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com.
All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
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That's a good point. But you'd have to believe you're in a strong legal position to win a claim - and be able to front the money for it.
Absolutely. Only the OP knows the value of the car, the cost of repairs & his financial circumstances but personally I'd find the money to have a truly independent inspection for my own peace of mind & go from there.
The thought of being ripped off by these "scammers", & that's what they are, would haunt me for ever
Always try to be at least half the person your dog thinks you are!0 -
Crank failure is usually due to a fault in the casting, everything after that such as swarf etc will probably be due to the broken crankshaft. Lack of oil would have resulted in an engine seizure.0
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My ex wife had a similar experience with Warranty Direct when the water pump failed on her Renault. The first she knew of it was when the engine seized. There had been no steam, no funny noises, nothing obvious to give prior warning.
WD refused to pay. To add insult to injury, because the claim was unsuccesssful, WD expected my ex to pay for all the dismantling costs. She ended up giving the garage the car in lieu of payment.
Needless to say, Warranty Direct are on my "When hell freezes over" list along with Talk Talk and a couple of others.0
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