Penalty Fare - worth Appealing ???

rdwarr

I suppose it depends on whether or not the Penalty Fare (it's not a "fine") was correctly issued. Why did they give you one?

geordie_taxi

phlog wrote: »

At the end of their second response they informed me that they would not engage in any further correspondence

typical railway company arrogance :mad: their trying to bully u into paying i wud complain to passengerfocus or the rail regulator

phlog wrote: »

The company claims to be independent and unbiased, since it receives a fixed fee for every claim handled, irrespective of the outcome

i wonder where that fixed fee comes from :think: the old saying 'biting the hand that feeds u'

phlog wrote: »

I'm not sure whether to pay the fine to stop the arbitrary administration charges from piling up, and then to try and maybe claim it back, or whether to keep trying to fight my corner

go for it as they wont like it up um :T but if u lose it mite cost u a packet of cash

C_Mababejive

So its a penalty fare,not a fine? did she give them her real name and address and come to think of it,do they have any right to request it? In fact,what powers do they have? My initial thought is sweet FA.

callum9999

C_Mababejive wrote: »

So its a penalty fare,not a fine? did she give them her real name and address and come to think of it,do they have any right to request it? In fact,what powers do they have? My initial thought is sweet FA.

Do you not think someone would have challenged penalty fares by now if they weren't legal... They are hardly a new thing.

C_Mababejive

callum9999 wrote: »

Do you not think someone would have challenged penalty fares by now if they weren't legal... They are hardly a new thing.

I'm seeking enlightenment. I have no doubt that the structure is sound i.e the ticket inspector issues you with a penalty ticket which you can chose to pay to stave off the possibility of a civil claim for loss from TFL which would then become a matter for the civil courts to deal with.

So..ticket inspector> Madame you do not have a ticket/your ticket is invalid. Im issuing a fixed penalty notice.

Punter> Oh dear,thats rather unfortunate

Inspector> Could i have your name and address please?

Punter>Im not minded to tell you

Punter then gets off train..

Presumably inspector has no powers of detention?

Even if inspector beckons a member of BTP to assist,what powers would BTP have in such a situation?

dggar

C_Mababejive wrote: »

I'm seeking enlightenment. I have no doubt that the structure is sound i.e the ticket inspector issues you with a penalty ticket which you can chose to pay to stave off the possibility of a civil claim for loss from TFL which would then become a matter for the civil courts to deal with.

So..ticket inspector> Madame you do not have a ticket/your ticket is invalid. Im issuing a fixed penalty notice.

Punter> Oh dear,thats rather unfortunate

Inspector> Could i have your name and address please?

Punter>Im not minded to tell you

Punter then gets off train..

Presumably inspector has no powers of detention?

Even if inspector beckons a member of BTP to assist,what powers would BTP have in such a situation?

Post your question here

http://www.railforums.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=152

you will get the full answer

Stigy

C_Mababejive wrote: »

I'm seeking enlightenment. I have no doubt that the structure is sound i.e the ticket inspector issues you with a penalty ticket which you can chose to pay to stave off the possibility of a civil claim for loss from TFL which would then become a matter for the civil courts to deal with.

So..ticket inspector> Madame you do not have a ticket/your ticket is invalid. Im issuing a fixed penalty notice.

Punter> Oh dear,thats rather unfortunate

Inspector> Could i have your name and address please?

Punter>Im not minded to tell you

Punter then gets off train..

Presumably inspector has no powers of detention?

Even if inspector beckons a member of BTP to assist,what powers would BTP have in such a situation?

Under section 5(2) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 a railway official has the power of detention until such time as an individual can be brought before some justice (the Police usually), if an offender refuses to supply their name and/or address after having failed to pay their fare. As this is a power of arrest, staff are able to use force as necessary and proportionately. Admittedly staff are tole tot to practice this power as once you arrest somebody you're opening a can of worms and have a duty of care etc etc.

BTP can arrest under other legislation for refusing details, and have all the powers of regular, home office Police.

C_Mababejive

Stigy wrote: »

Under section 5(2) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 a railway official has the power of detention until such time as an individual can be brought before some justice (the Police usually), if an offender refuses to supply their name and/or address after having failed to pay their fare. As this is a power of arrest, staff are able to use force as necessary and proportionately. Admittedly staff are tole tot to practice this power as once you arrest somebody you're opening a can of worms and have a duty of care etc etc.

BTP can arrest under other legislation for refusing details, and have all the powers of regular, home office Police.

wow..amazing..i wonder why such powers apply to railways and not,presumably,the local bus service or indeed taxis?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/52-53/57/section/5

Still,even so you could just make up a name and address?

geordie_taxi

Stigy wrote: »

As this is a power of arrest, staff are able to use force as necessary and proportionately. Admittedly staff are tole tot to practice this power as once you arrest somebody you're opening a can of worms and have a duty of care etc etc.

strange i fort staff that intimidated passengers about validity of fares or got physical with them got the sack

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/sacked-ticket-collector-who-sparked-1491085

geordie_taxi

C_Mababejive wrote: »

I'm seeking enlightenment.

inspector> name and address please

punter> heres my correct name and address

inspector> wud u have paid if nobody stopped u today

punter> no comment

inspector> have u got the correct money to purchase a ticket today

punter> no comment

inspector> r u a fare dodger

punter> no comment

get my drift