Penalty Fare - worth Appealing ???

WokingGuy

Hi there

looking for advice on whether to appeal Penalty Fare...

My daughter has just moved from home(Woking) to North London to take a catering course.

We were going out for the afternoon on Sunday and I asked her to meet us at Richmond station to save driving into London to collect her.

En route from Finchley Road & Frognal to Richmond she received a penalty fare (£80). This is the first time she had used the London Overground but believed she touched in the Oyster card correctly. However, it appears not to have registered and the inspector's
reader could find no record of it.

In the two weeks she's been In London, she has not had any problem using the Oyster card on London Underground services and a check of her Oyster history shows 6 journeys and also a £10 top-up last Tuesday.

She is not a fare cheat. Additionally, with the recent Oyster history and sufficient funds on the card it is illogical to think that she would have tried to avoid a fare of £1.40.

Any chance that the Independent Appeals Service would use their discretion and waive the penalty fare ?

thanks in advance.

Notmyrealname

My train of thought with stuff like this is that if you don't try, you'll not know.

Jeff_Bridges_hair

Its worth trying but if it does not show she has touched in then they will say she has not touched in. Its her word against technology that doesnt really fail that often given how many journeys are made using it each day.

Get her to go to a tube or overground station and get a print out of her oyster card - it may show up what was wrong and also ask her to get information if the reader she used that day was OOO from the Oyster helpline itself.

failing that its pay up £40 time(the PF gets reduced if paid within a certain time).
An expensive lesson to always ensure the reader beeps and shows the green light im afraid

Livingthedream

IMHO I don't think you'll have much luck appealing, but you never know. Also it might be worth posting on a dedicated Oyster Forum where an Oyster ticketing expert will be able to help better.

http://forums.oyster-rail.org.uk/

barbiedoll

I've had trouble with Oyster readers in the past, although admittedly I use my Oyster a lot for work and problems are rare and usually my mistake. However, I did touch in at a station one time and I saw the green light and heard the beep, plus the barrier opened. Yet it didn't register my card and I got a large fare taken at the end of my journey.

I called Oyster to complain and they were very good and refunded the charge after seeing my travel history and hearing my explaination. I don't know if they are so reasonable when you have a penalty ticket but I'd say it's worth appealing, you have nothing to lose!

I've even managed to wrangle a refund when I have forgotten to "touch out", although as I was working, I touched back in again, at the same station, less than an hour later so they could see where I had actually travelled from and to. Plus, with my journey history, they can see that I'm not going to bother fiddling a £2 or less fare.

Give them a call!

WokingGuy

Thank you all for the quick replies - some valuable advice to follow through with.

We'll give Oyster a call to see whether they are able to assist and I'll also post on the dedicated Oyster Forum.

Thanks again for the advice.

Darfyddi

Might be too late as I see this was a few days ago but if the call doesn't work then a polite and well explained / detailed written letter might produce results as a written response takes more time, effort and cost for both parties there is more chance of the claims being true and for the company to try and solve the problem quickly to avoid further hassle.

RainbowDrops

I've just submitted an appeal for a similar problem (same line)
I did it online (details were on the fine papers they gave me).
Normally, you have 21 days to pay a reduced fine of £40, but this time stops during an appeal, so don't worry about this.

Just provide as much clear detail as you can about the claim.
Give times of when you touched in, does the station have gates / were the gates in opperation (if so, then it would be illogical for her to not beep in seeing as Richmond is gated).

Even if there are no gates, suggest that they check their CCTV to see if she did beep in.

I haven't heard anything back yet, so fingers crossed they wont fine me.

WokingGuy

@Darfyddi - yes, wrote a letter, concise but with relevant details. Received back a "template" response...

"...I note that on this occasion presentation of a validated Oyster card was not possible. ...I must advise that the decision to issue the notice has been upheld and payment of the penalty fare is now due..."

No reference to any of the letter content or context of penalty fare.

I also checked with Oyster helpline but they had no record of the touch-in.

Alas, a disappointing experience but thanks all for the advice.

RainbowDrops

I've received what seems to be the exact same letter.
I'm sending a second appeal, letting them know how disappointed that they've just sent a stock response without actually addressing the issues raised in my appeal.

phlog

I have had a similar experience appealing a penalty fare I received on a London Midland train. I have sent two letters, and both responses are basically templates like the ones you have received stating that the appeal has been unsuccessful, and completely failing to address the content of my letter.

At the end of their second response they informed me that they would not engage in any further correspondence (which I think is completely out of order when their response deliberately miss interpreted the rules for issuing penalty fares which I researched and quoted in my letter).

The company claims to be independent and unbiased, since it receives a fixed fee for every claim handled, irrespective of the outcome. However, this is blatantly not the case since they will want their contract to be renewed by the train company, which is more likely to happen if they generate more revenue for the train company.

I'm not sure whether to pay the fine to stop the arbitrary administration charges from piling up, and then to try and maybe claim it back, or whether to keep trying to fight my corner. So any advice as to what to do or who to contact would be greatly appreciated!

It annoys me as the train companies could not get away with treating us the way they do if they didn't have the monopoly that they do.