Paragon personal finance with hold clear info of broker until the broker had ceased

paragon_help

Hi I'm new here so please bear with me, I will try and keep it as short as I can but it's complex, well to me that is.

took out secured loan with paragon personal finance in oct 2004 for £48000 of which just over 12 k was ppi front loaded at the time I took out the loan it was not even required and was told that I could not get the loan kind of without it, I needed the loan so went ahead not knowing the full implications to follow. £400 per month payments

was getting into difficulty in 2007 so contacted paragon via letter & contacted them on the phone there was a very heated conversation as they would not drop the figure of the ppi down which in turn stopped us accepting an offer on our house, we went to court as paragon tried to repossess in Nov 07, we attended and told the judge that the cost of the ppi was stopping the house sale & that paragon would not budge on it. Judge adjourned and set date for a later time to investigate the ppi charge

there was nothing to investigate as I had already spoken to paragon and they made it clear that there was nothing that could be done because ate that time I was under the impression that they supplied it. I never got a response to my letter in 2007 disputing the ppi until ( wait for it ) 13th October 2012 yes today hence me posting.

we decided to give the keys back to the main mortgage lender in 2007 as things got worse, the house sold and the remaining monies paid paragon 43k but still left a short fall, paragon did try get the remainder few months later but we was not in a position to pay it and with advise from consumer counselling was told to offer £1.00 a month which they accepted but to be reviewed periodically.

when things came to light in 2011 I contacted paragon to pay up on the rip off ppi that they had provided along with the ombudsman only to get a letter to sate they had nothing to do with it & that a company called access loans and mortgages had supplied it!!!!

I have no recollection of dealing with a third party as I actually remember going into the Solihull main office to sign and as per letter to paragon & telephone call at no time was this information about the broker passed onto me for me to pursue even in court!?

2012 I contact them again to find out what was going on and that I was still awaiting the letter that they had apparently sent in 2007 which I did not get sept 2012 still no letter & getting really frustrated even more so when they tell me last week that they played no part in the selling!! and that the company that had sold it ceased trading in 2010. now the ombudsman & paragon have said that I go back to the insurer!!?? I'm confused because all paper work & all dealings have been paragon.

I am not happy at all that paragon are what seems fobbing me off and using get out clauses for responsibility when everything clearly states them I have all original docs but no mention anywhere of broker they claim.

I still hold paragon accountable despite what they say & the ombudsman have said because they knew of my concerns in relation to PPI from 2007 its logged at court also and they have had ample opportunity to let me know this apparent broker but did not until i could no loner pursue access loans and mortgages.
I see it that it was in there best interest to withhold that information as it was them that set it up and it would have a negative impact on there profits because its a lot of money.

is this normal can they get away with the fact they have only just supplied me with the letter stating 3rd party long after the horse has bolted

Please help as this is just so wrong ahs anyone else had this experience?

paragon_help

sorry its so long winded couldn't think of a getting points out without the novel:eek:

had the info been given in 2007 when I raised my concerns & even at court then I could very easily of approached the apparent seller of it but instead they leave it dragging on lying in kind of dormant state with only £1.00 payment? when there was supposed to be periodic reviews.

I have another issue also that the complaint department is based in Solihull and the managing director T Webb I believe is in the same team as the guy we spoke with in 2007 about the ppi so any complaint cannot and will not be looked at fairly I feel because both state customer relations co-ordinator/complaince .

the info they provided on the 13th Oct which was I forgot to say hand delivered had my apparent application which frankly says nothing and I finally got to see statements of account for the very first time and I'm shocked ate the amounts but most of all its the letter dated 2007 that's the most shocking that they've just sat on that information happily is utterly disgusting which I could have actually done something about.

can anyone recommend who else I can complain to within paragon or mortgage trust other than the Solihull branch?, as I was considering emailing all executives but don't really want to have to do that.

paragon_help

one last thing that is going through my mind is its a little strange that 2 days after the fos has changed the complaint from paragon to to the insurer london and edinburgh now aviva? can I re-open the complaint against paragon with the Ombudsman because I still stick that they provided it and hold them responsible for the following upset & trauma that followed. and also I provided them with the codes off the insurance certificate gc74204 & GC 74201, could it be that the reason it was lying dormant that they did not have a copy of the secured loan payment protection but I gave them this information that they was missing?, It all seems to have come very quickly to a head within days since providing this information, I say this because I do not trust them at all.

magpiecottage

Paragon provided the loan, not the insurance.

In theory you could argue that they are jointly and severally liable with the intermediary under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

However, your difficulty is that you would have to show that the policy was missold in court. That will be very difficult.

dunstonh

I still hold paragon accountable despite what they say & the ombudsman have said because they knew of my concerns in relation to PPI from 2007 its logged at court also and they have had ample opportunity to let me know this apparent broker but did not until i could no loner pursue access loans and mortgages.
I see it that it was in there best interest to withhold that information as it was them that set it up and it would have a negative impact on there profits because its a lot of money.

You may do but the law is unlikely to do so. Your biggest problem is that no-one from Paragon gave you advice. The PPI issue is not about the product. It is about the advice or sales process used. The liability in law lies with the seller of the product. To take paragon to court because of the actions of someone that was not an employee of theirs should see the case thrown out. You also need to be aware that there are very few successful court cases. Even lenders that have over 90% success rates at the FOS have won in court. The PPI issue is largely one to do with the FSA and not a breach of law.

The bottom line is that you asking a judge to make a ruling against a company that has no liability for what you are claiming. That is unlikely to happen.

I am not happy at all that paragon are what seems fobbing me off and using get out clauses for responsibility when everything clearly states them I have all original docs but no mention anywhere of broker they claim.

You wouldnt expect it to either. The broker submits the application and the lender takes over from there.

one last thing that is going through my mind is its a little strange that 2 days after the fos has changed the complaint from paragon to to the insurer london and edinburgh now aviva?

There is a small window in dates and regulatory positions that means in some cases, the insurer can have the liability. It is only a small number of cases but the FOS push everyone down that route as a possibility. Most do not succeed.

can I re-open the complaint against paragon with the Ombudsman because I still stick that they provided it

No. It is still the same complaint. Just another angle on it which may apply.

Single premium PPI is considered bad on mortgages and most loans. So, you were mis-sold in the FSA world. However, single premium is not unlawful and courts have rejected single premium. You have my sympathy on your situation and had the firm still existed, you would likely to have won via the normal complaint channels. However, i fear you are running out of options and may end up spending money on cases with little chance of success.

paragon_help

dunstonh wrote: »

No. It is still the same complaint. Just another angle on it which may apply.

Single premium PPI is considered bad on mortgages and most loans. So, you were mis-sold in the FSA world. However, single premium is not unlawful and courts have rejected single premium. You have my sympathy on your situation and had the firm still existed, you would likely to have won via the normal complaint channels. However, i fear you are running out of options and may end up spending money on cases with little chance of success.

So was it just a tactic for Paragon to keep hold of the original letter they apparently sent in October 2007 until the case had changed onto Aviva?? so they knew it could not be re-opened for that reason?.

Like I said went to court about this and judge gave time to look into it, but paragon did not at any time make me aware of such a broker or that I had to approach the broker with a complaint, the way I see it was withholding information from me for their own financial gain, and they kept hold of that until the broker no longer traded knowing that it could not be challenged in anyway.

paragon_help

magpiecottage wrote: »

Paragon provided the loan, not the insurance.

In theory you could argue that they are jointly and severally liable with the intermediary under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

However, your difficulty is that you would have to show that the policy was miss sold in court. That will be very difficult.

That's not the way I recall it as mentioned even with heated conversation when I could have actually sold the property, at no time was it to bought to my attention, why because of greed, they knew damn well that the whole loan was a massive con anyway, surely any organisation that receives a complaint in relation to PPI that they knew damn well was in a way forced upon would want to disassociate themselves from that practise?

Am I just to admit defeat and give up, problem is not sure if I want to pay them, If i stop paying the remainder which is a £1.00 per month at moment will they start legal proceedings against me to recover the outstanding debt? This whole situation is stopping me sleeping & makes me sick:mad:

dunstonh

So was it just a tactic for Paragon to keep hold of the original letter they apparently sent in October 2007 until the case had changed onto Aviva?? so they knew it could not be re-opened for that reason?.

As paragon never had any liability, they have no reason to.

the way I see it was withholding information from me for their own financial gain

as they have nothing to lose and nothing to gain, what do you think they have?

paragon_help

so am I to admit defeat? It's stressing me out but 1 thing I just cant let go of the fact that despite making a complaint in 2007 it not coming to light till 2011 when they broke the news that I had to chase the broker, they must have known the broker was no longer trading so why bother even telling me to pursue the broker :mad:, In my case had the facts been clearer when I contacted paragon in 2007 I could have maybe done something about it:mad:

paragon_help

its unregulated this loan so paragon has nothing to do with that either? the letter dated 13th October 2012 states that the loans is unregulated where does this leave me?

I've never looked at the unregulated part of this before as its stapled in the corner which covers unregulated text on the document so on the original document all I can see is credit agreement please help.

paragon_help

I've also just looked at the statements of account which I've never had before and I feel absolutely sick to the stomach at the costings, so as the PPI was sold by the broker the Loan was also?

the way I'm feeling at the moment that insurance might just come in handy

So I borrowed £35,000 got a £12,225 PPI I did not want for house improvements/extension and consolidation of a few loans and within 36 months end up paying £54594.97 and still owing massively.

Is this right? I see now why paragon was getting very anxious and quick of the mark attempting to get repossession in 07, it is clearly because they wanted to capitalise in a massive way. Would this be the real reason for not mentioning anything in court when I attended in 2007?