Grade 2 Listed - Retrospective planning - help needed

DiscoCat54

Hi there. Apologies if this post is a little vague but I'm writing it on behalf of my sister.

Here is a brief synopsis...

July - sister has an offer on her property and finds her dream house, a Grade 2 listed cottage

2 weeks later - sister mentions to solicitor that she is a music teacher and teaches from home. Solicitor advises that change of usage is required for out house so solicitor puts in hypothetical planning request - takes 7 weeks and comes back inconclusive but not necessarily negative

Survey picks up a few 'reds' so sister sends around independent surveyor and conservation officer.

Work required to roof however it appears to be relatively minor and can be patched up however there is a biggy with regards to planning consent. No consent for new windows, satellite dish, porch OR, and this is the big one, knocking two cottages in to one.

Indemnity Insurance isn't an option as planning office would need to be involved in either rectifying or approving work carried out. Sister has asked that the vendor seeks retrospective planning permission but the vendor has flatly refused. This has been dragging on for over 12 weeks now and the other people in the chain are getting twitchy.

Is getting retrospective planning a costly activity and how long does it take?

This is my sister's dream forever home so any advice would be really appreciated.

kuepper

DiscoCat54 wrote: »

Hi there. Apologies if this post is a little vague but I'm writing it on behalf of my sister.

Here is a brief synopsis...

July - sister has an offer on her property and finds her dream house, a Grade 2 listed cottage

2 weeks later - sister mentions to solicitor that she is a music teacher and teaches from home. Solicitor advises that change of usage is required for out house so solicitor puts in hypothetical planning request - takes 7 weeks and comes back inconclusive but not necessarily negative

Survey picks up a few 'reds' so sister sends around independent surveyor and conservation officer.

Work required to roof however it appears to be relatively minor and can be patched up however there is a biggy with regards to planning consent. No consent for new windows, satellite dish, porch OR, and this is the big one, knocking two cottages in to one.

Indemnity Insurance isn't an option as planning office would need to be involved in either rectifying or approving work carried out. Sister has asked that the vendor seeks retrospective planning permission but the vendor has flatly refused. This has been dragging on for over 12 weeks now and the other people in the chain are getting twitchy.

Is getting retrospective planning a costly activity and how long does it take?

This is my sister's dream forever home so any advice would be really appreciated.

Could do with breaking this down really as there are so many issues and i'm not sure if terms are being used properly.

Teaching music from home I wouldn't have thought needed change of use anyway per se, it would depend on nos of ppl, how long each day, how many days etc

When was the work done? if over 4 yrs ago planners can'd do anything about it anyway.

When you say planning consent do you actually mean planning permission or listed building consent (LBC)or both? Did all the items you mention need both anyway for this building, maybe only external character is relevant in which case internal walls may not have needed planning/LBC consent - but see below

If consent(s) not in place and council have been made aware of that fact then the council should already be taking enforcement action vs the vendor and making him apply retrospectively whether vendor wants to or not, so it seems odd to me that they've not done so already in 12 weeks, they would have done in my council area straightaway.

Knocking down walls sounds like a bld regs issue too and may need retrospective permission for that, think its only a year for that to have become legalised though.

Other thoughts - 1. you don't have to be the owner to apply for planning permission so your sis could do it herself 2. applying for LBC is free in my council area. In each case tho she'd have to pay for plans drawn- few hundred quid.

Irrespective of permissions, someone whose done all that furtively without permissions shouldn't be trusted to have got the work done professionally? Any builder worth his salt would havee been in touch with planners and building inspector to check compliance.

Sounds like she should give up on it to me and get real, too many unknowns

Fire_Fox

Assume you do not mean planning permission but rather listed building consent? These are not the same thing at all. If it was a dream home it would not have these issues, surely?

namecheck

kuepper wrote: »

Could do with breaking this down really as there are so many issues and i'm not sure if terms are being used properly.

When was the work done? if over 4 yrs ago planners can'd do anything about it anyway.


I'm sure this does not apply to listed buildings. Current owners can be liable for unauthorised changes made years before.

Listed buildings can be more trouble than they are worth.

DiscoCat54

Thanks for all of your help so far. Apologies if the wrong terminology is confusing things but as I said this is on behalf of someone else so I will go away and check the specifics.

As for change of use, that it one thing that is confirmed as it is a shared driveway with parking on the highway. It is a full time business with up to 10 visitors per day.

DiscoCat54

Firefox, I see your point around how it can be a dream home with these issues but in this case it's an emotional response based on aesthetics, size and position. She has basically fallen in love with it, faults and all!

casperlarue

Taken from planningportal.gov.uk.....

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/1app/guidance/guidance_note-listed_building_consent.pdf

Retrospective listed building consent doesn't exist as the original criminal offence of carrying out works with out permission still exists, however the local authority can decide whether to grant permission based on the works that have been done.

If the original owner is refusing to apply for permission then there could be a lot of other hidden problems with this property...

My advice.... dont bother with this property.....big can of very expensive worms!

DiscoCat54

Here is an excerpt from a mail from my sister's Solicitir detailing what is outstanding:


this is a list of the outstanding things
You will recall from our conversations to date that the Seller has been unable to provide:

•
Confirmation from the Enforcement Officer that any damage caused by the satellite dish will

not result in action

•
Evidence of Listed Building Consent for the porch

•
Evidence of Listed Building Consent for the velux windows

•
Evidence of the conversion of the property from 2 to 1 being undertaken prior to the property being listed

mrginge

There is no way on God's earth i would touch that.
She needs to walk.

kuepper

DiscoCat54 wrote: »

Here is an excerpt from a mail from my sister's Solicitir detailing what is outstanding:


this is a list of the outstanding things
You will recall from our conversations to date that the Seller has been unable to provide:

•
Confirmation from the Enforcement Officer that any damage caused by the satellite dish will

not result in action

•
Evidence of Listed Building Consent for the porch

•
Evidence of Listed Building Consent for the velux windows

•
Evidence of the conversion of the property from 2 to 1 being undertaken prior to the property being listed

What you said in another post about the usage gives me concern about getting pl permission. It's obviously hard to envisage the site and access but from what you say clearly the neighbour and user of shared drive will object to additional traffic, parking issues, potential noise nuisance etc, so even if permission was granted (and it could get refused) there might be so many unacceptable conditions attached to the permission your sis couldn't run the music teaching as she's envisaged.

As for work that's been carried out (and probably done substandardly) you seem to have accepted it's an issue of LBC not planning permission. You already know the vendor can't provide what you've listed above and won't apply for them so I'm at a loss to understand why any interest in this house is being retained, and have you asked the council what enforcement action is being taken and where it is up to? Sometimes you just have to walk away, I think everyone here's agreed on that. And in the meantime solicitor's bills keep rising.....

andy.m_2

Your Sister needs to walk now before any further costs are accrued.
This is going to cost big in terms of money and emotional stress.

I know that She thinks it is the one, but it is not, there is another cottage out there that will fulfill the same criteria I promise.

How would She feel if the enforcement officer came and told her to take the velux, remove the dish and porch and worse, knock it back into two buildings?
These are now possibles rather than unlikelys.

Reiterate to her, it is a home, She may like it, but it is not her dream home and it is not the one.