Special order by phone

Auntie-Dolly

I guess it all depends on whether it is deemed as a distance sale or not. I still think that because the item wasn't something they offered for sale on a website, but an item you specificially asked them to supply to you it won't. I googled 'special orders' and on most of the suppliers T&C's these were deemed non-refundable. The supplier is unlikely to be able to return the table the the wholesaler as commercial sales are generally non returnable. Did you ask if it was returnable when you ordered it? Had you seen one in real life before you ordered? It will be interesting to see how this ends.

bris

Auntie-Dolly wrote: »

I guess it all depends on whether it is deemed as a distance sale or not. I still think that because the item wasn't something they offered for sale on a website, but an item you specificially asked them to supply to you it won't. I googled 'special orders' and on most of the suppliers T&C's these were deemed non-refundable. The supplier is unlikely to be able to return the table the the wholesaler as commercial sales are generally non returnable. Did you ask if it was returnable when you ordered it? Had you seen one in real life before you ordered? It will be interesting to see how this ends.

Being a special order is not an excuse to deny DSR rights, although like you say most will try. If it is an off the shelf item then it is not exempt from DSR, it needs to be customised to the customers needs for that.
The op's only hope is if the retailer does distance sales regulary, then he could be classed as an organised distance seller, if it was a one of or very infrequent thing then the op is out of luck.

gram77

many thanks for your informed replies. In fact I am the owner/sole trader of the business in question that supplied the "coffee table" to the customer. I admit I fibbed about being the customer, as i thought you might angle your answers differently if you knew i was the shop owner....,apologies. The customer in question could have easily bought the item from an online company at the same price but told me he wanted to give the business to a local firm. I suspect it was purely a matter of it would be easier to return if when he saw it he didn't like it. He is very clued up on DSR law whereas I do not do much online business and as someone said ..the website is really a sales tool for my shop.
I personally delivered the item to his home address, unpacked it and set it up in the room where it was wanted. He wasn't there, his Mum saw me in.
When he got home he rang me and said it wasn't what he expected and was letting me know within 7 days that he wanted a full refund. I have explained that I ordered it especially for him at his request, and it is not a normal stock item or something that I have ever sold or even actually seen before...so couldnt have been responsible for describing in any way the finish or quality of the item. At order date he was happy with this and never asked what were my policies for refunds on this kind of "special customer order" . Had he done so I would have been reluctant to supply the item...particularly at the profit level involved. In fact I paid the supplier £870.00 including vat for the table and sold it with free delivery for £999.00 inc vat. Not worth the business unless it was a local delivery and an easy transaction !! desperate times for the furniture industry though. Today he has already sent me an email asking whats happening ? At this point thanks to your replies I feel confident enough to tell him, no refund unless the supplier takes the item back. I expect them not to, I will hear their decision in the next 24 hours. I expect threats of legal action and a lot of mud slinging from this chap, and what really pees me off is in a way I did him a favour and it has turned round and bit me on the a*se.

thanks
G

unholyangel

I dont think the advice given would differ if you'd came here saying you were the retailer. We have had a few small business owners come here to ask advice over the years.

The retailers that tend to get on the "bad" side of us here at MSE are those that purposely try and deprive consumers of their rights under law. I don't think you're one of those businesses as they tend not to try and find out what the actual law is and instead just go by what they think it is. At least you've came here to find out.

However I would advise you contact your local Trading Standards, because even if the DSRs do not apply, the Sale of Goods Act will (as I have said a few times in this thread I think). And it may still be possible for the consumer to argue that the table is not of satisfactory quality and reject it for a full refund under that basis.

arcon5

Do you often take orders by telephone or have a systemic place to do so?

I don't think you should feel overly confident, it's a grey area so if he did take you to court (which is a possibility for an item of such value) you may not win and end up paying court costs too.

I think you should come to an amicable agreement with the customer. Ask the manufacturer to take it back and deduct a fee and agree the customer pays this.

Hintza

unholyangel wrote: »

However I would advise you contact your local Trading Standards, because even if the DSRs do not apply, the Sale of Goods Act will (as I have said a few times in this thread I think). And it may still be possible for the consumer to argue that the table is not of satisfactory quality and reject it for a full refund under that basis.

I am assuming the item is of the same quality as all the others that the supplier sells successfully (I know it might not be) then I struggle to see how SOGA would apply. It looks like this guy wanted to try before he bought.

But it could pay dividends if the OP had approached trading standards before his customer gets to them.

neilmcl

bris wrote: »

Having a website and selling at a distance are not the same thing, there are thousands of bricks and mortar shops that have websites for information only. If they have no shopping basket you can put stuff in and no means of taking payment it could very well be said they do not normally sell at a distance. In this case they are allowed to sell the odd thing from time to time in situations like this without having to abide by the DSR.
It is of course subjective and only a judge could decide whether or not they should follow the DSR, the amount of sales like this they do would be the factor on the outcome.

As you say they do not stock or advertise this product and you went to them specifically for it, for me it doesn't look good that you could rely on the DSR.

I'd disagree, the fact that they have a website to viiew items at a distance and allow ordering to be done by phone suggest that, on balance, selling at a distance IS a normal part of their business and therefore DSRs should apply.

EDIT; I posted this before I read the OP's post above. Having said that though, the OP admits that he uses the website as a "sales tool" therefore it would be reasonable to expect to take phone orders on the back of this, whether he takes many this way or not is not really an issue, he still has a system in place for this. IMHO DSRs still apply.

Oh, and in future OP, don't be so underhand, if you want advice be upfront about the facts in future.

gram77

arcon5 wrote: »

Do you often take orders by telephone or have a systemic place to do so?

I don't think you should feel overly confident, it's a grey area so if he did take you to court (which is a possibility for an item of such value) you may not win and end up paying court costs too.

I think you should come to an amicable agreement with the customer. Ask the manufacturer to take it back and deduct a fee and agree the customer pays this.

I would of course be willing to finish with your suggestion as an outcome, the problem will be when my supplier refuses to take back the item. I will end up with an expensive coffee table to sell just to get my money back, and lets be honest who is likely to want a returned expensive item of such high value in this current market.

gram77

neilmcl wrote: »

I'd disagree, the fact that they have a website to viiew items at a distance and allow ordering to be done by phone suggest that, on balance, selling at a distance IS a normal part of their business and therefore DSRs should apply.

EDIT; I posted this before I read the OP's post above. Having said that though, the OP admits that he uses the website as a "sales tool" therefore it would be reasonable to expect to take phone orders on the back of this, whether he takes many this way or not is not really an issue, he still has a system in place for this. IMHO DSRs still apply.

Oh, and in future OP, don't be so underhand, if you want advice be upfront about the facts in future.

The customer rejected online sellers who actually stock this item at the same price as we settled on in order to buy from me, a local business...that in his own words. I now believe this to mean...."if i dont like what i see..it'll be easier to return if its local.

neilmcl

gram77 wrote: »

The customer rejected online sellers who actually stock this item at the same price as we settled on in order to buy from me, a local business...that in his own words. I now believe this to mean...."if i dont like what i see..it'll be easier to return if its local.

Unfortunately that''s neither here nor there. You have a distance method of selling and the seller has taken advantage of this and is protected by the relevant legislation.