Deciphering a lease on a flat

alexandicity

Hi all,

After some estate agent wrangling, I got a copy of the lease for the top-floor lease I'm looking to buy.

Most of it looks fairly simple. One thing I'm trying to understand is whether the (quite substantial) loft area above the flat (and only accessible through the flat) is included in the demise. The previous leaseholder apparently installed a boiler and stored a few items up there, but I'm looking to convert it eventually so I want to be sure it's all legally within my demise. The only apparently relevant snippets in the lease I can find are:

"..ALL THAT Second floor Flat [...] including one half part in depth of the structure between the floor of the Demised Premises and he ceiling of the flat below the Demised Premises and the internal the external walls of the Demised Premises above the the same level."

How is that to be interpreted? To me "above the same level" suggests everything upwards of my flat, which would include the loft. But it isn't stated, and I hear that "walls" are legally distinct from the "space" they confine...

Any thoughts?

Fire_Fox

What does your conveyancer say?

alexandicity

Not that far progressed yet. I'm trying to check as much as I can before I start paying large fees Although I'll be sure to double-check with them when I do get that far!

Fire_Fox

Does the lease say anything elsewhere about the roof maintenance? This might mention the loft space. If it's substantial it sounds ripe for conversion, is that what you were thinking? If so be aware you need the freeholder's consent to do any structural alterations.

alexandicity

It does, yes. It states the Landlord will maintain and keep in repair the main structure of the building including the foundations and roof. But no mention of a loft or ownership

Conversion is indeed the plan! Not just yet, but I would like to keep the option for the future. I've actually talked about this with the freeholder and he doesn't seem to have an issue with some works - although we'll need to see what he thinks when I actually want to go ahead with it

Fire_Fox

If the freeholder seems happy in theory that sounds like he does think the top flat has full use of the loft space. Try to get written consent for the conversion within the conveyancing, don't wait. You might need to get a builder to draw up outline plans, this can be done quite cheaply.

Maybe RichardWebster will comment as he is a solicitor, otherwise it sounds to me like you are ready to get your own legal advice!

Richard_Webster

"above the same level" refers to the walls etc above the ceilings of the floor below. It doesn't expressly refer to the loft. If the landlord has to maintain the roof and there is no other mention of it then I would think the loft was not included in the lease.

If you do the conversion work and the landlord lets you do it, you may still have problems later on a sale when a buyer's solicitor is not convinced the loft is included in your lease.

alexandicity

Thanks for your input FireFox and RichardWebster! I will seek confirmation of the interpretation from my conveyancer. If it's not included, I will ask the freeholder if he'll be open to re-negotiating the lease to expand to it. That'll be interesting... I wonder how on Earth you can go about pricing something like that...

propertyman

In short no*.

Imagine a cake with a pointed top all in blue. Inside are a four layers, yellow red yellow red, and the yellow layers are cut in half( horizontally) with a black icing

Imagine the blue bits are the roof and structure, and yellow bits the joists between the roof and between flats. You are responsible for everything inside the red line ( your flat) and half the intervening elements ( boards joists plaster etc) in the yellow up to the black lines.

That is what your quote ( which isn't quite accurate) shows as your demise.

* I cannot say that the lease does not or does grant further rights elsewhere, but the void is definitely not yours.
If
a: the freeholder has not given permission to install the boiler in the roof void, which is their property, or
b: the lease does not grant a right to install a boiler there ( they often allow storage tanks or aerials etc)

then there is risk that as soon as they are aware of this they can insist on it's removal at your cost.

NB. Installing boilers in roof spaces without adequate air supply or ventilation, or a proper fire precautions to adjacent structures is illegal and you must have it inspected by a registered gas installer. Bear in mind that these can give rise to condensation problems and mould growth which can lead to rot and damage which would be your liability not the freeholder's.

Discuss with your solicitor urgently. At the very least you need to insure against that risk.

alexandicity

Hi Propertyman,

I can't see your illustration I'm afraid - comes through as a broken link

I don't see any other mention of the loft or roof space anywhere in the lease, so probably you are right and it is not included.

Out of interest, which part of the extract is inaccurate? Apart from a misspelling of "the" (oops! ), it seems the same as the text in the lease?

The boiler is an electrical one (as is all the heat in the flat), and one of my first steps will be to removal it all and replace it with a GCH. So I'm not worried about this boiler from a safety perspective - at worse, it will sit up there, off - but probably it will be removed. I'll be sure to mention the current state to my conveyancer and the freeholder so everyone's aware though, and if the conveyancer suggests action I will follow.

Thank you!

propertyman

It would not paste so I used the cake metaphor. I'm now going to walk to the house and see if I can sneak some cake.

It's quite clear that the demise stops half way in the joists to the roof void and no further.

the internal the external walls

doesnt make sense.

Yes but even the electrical boilers can lead to condensation as they are designed to be in a habitable area not a freezing cold and moist roof area.

If you do plan to fit a boiler in the loft, as the loft is not yours, the freeholder could decline permission, and you have no alternative, or may charge you a premium, and insist on removal of the existing.