Question regarding the disciplinary process (repeat offences).

WasntMe_2

Thanks for that Pricivius. I remember the last one saying something about i may receive a warning.


2 questions here....

1. Does the fact that the person my remark was about thinking this whole thing is [his words...] "pathetic" & "childish" help my case at all, or is this irrelevant?
Obviously, i know i can't just go to the bosses & say Joe Bloggs thinks you're pathetic, but if interviewed he turned around & basically repeated what he said to me - does this help, or can they still ignore him & go for the maximum punishment anyway (they always seem to go for the heavy hand - biggest punishment possible every time).

2. Would you advise against asking the person my remark was about (my supervisor) to be my witness if the union don't come through?

denla

Your supervisor won't be your witness. If he did that, he's admitting he's also calling his subordinate names and that's asking to be sacked or disciplined as well.

WasntMe_2

denla wrote: »

Your supervisor won't be your witness. If he did that, he's admitting he's also calling his subordinate names and that's asking to be sacked or disciplined as well.

You've lost me (but then it's not hard, especially as i've a pounding headache tonight)...

Who's his subordinate?

My remark was about my supervisor. That's the gripe of my employer.

I told my supervisor exactly what was said in the investigation & exactly what i said on facebook about him.

He said it was "pathetic" that they were even addressing this & that we call each other names & lazy as part of every day building yard banter. He just laughed about it when i told him the story.

So my question was would you advise against taking my supervisor as my witness. I'd be able to see everything he says then. That way, if he tells me one thing & them another, it'll be obvious, but if he maintains what he said to me (that it's pathetic they're entertaining this & he doesn't care about it) then surely that'd help me?

denla

WasntMe wrote: »

You've lost me (but then it's not hard, especially as i've a pounding headache tonight)...

Who's his subordinate?

My remark was about my supervisor. That's the gripe of my employer.

I told my supervisor exactly what was said in the investigation & exactly what i said on facebook about him.

He said it was "pathetic" that they were even addressing this & that we call each other names & lazy as part of every day building yard banter. He just laughed about it when i told him the story.

So my question was would you advise against taking my supervisor as my witness. I'd be able to see everything he says then. That way, if he tells me one thing & them another, it'll be obvious, but if he maintains what he said to me (that it's pathetic they're entertaining this & he doesn't care about it) then surely that'd help me?

If the supervisor calls the higher ups 'pathetic' for making a fuss over this, he'll get disciplined.

If the supervisor admits he calls you or anyone else in the workplace names and accuses workers of being 'lazy' then he's asking to be disciplined.

I honestly can't see why your supervisor in the right mind would ever speak up for you... not unless he wants to lose his job.

You made a mistake twice in a row. You'll get a final written warning or instant dismissal upon end of investigation. Don't expect others to put in a good word for you at the high risk of losing their own job.

WasntMe_2

I may be getting a bit ahead of myself here, but fact is I need to be a realist...
How do I go forward from this regarding job applications? I imagine potential new employers would rather a dose of the clap than employ me if I'm sacked for this. It would obviously come up in any interview or paper application, so how do I approach it?

As a side note, I spoke to my supervisor who SAYS (doing is obviously different) that if they do sack me then he would happily make a statement for any appeal. I pointed out he may get punished also & he said he doesn't care because this has been taken too far & everyone here does this every day.

Still, concentrating on moving forward from this, what about the dilemma I mentioned?

denla

WasntMe wrote: »

I may be getting a bit ahead of myself here, but fact is I need to be a realist...
How do I go forward from this regarding job applications? I imagine potential new employers would rather a dose of the clap than employ me if I'm sacked for this. It would obviously come up in any interview or paper application, so how do I approach it?

As a side note, I spoke to my supervisor who SAYS (doing is obviously different) that if they do sack me then he would happily make a statement for any appeal. I pointed out he may get punished also & he said he doesn't care because this has been taken too far & everyone here does this every day.

Still, concentrating on moving forward from this, what about the dilemma I mentioned?

If you do get sacked and apply for jobs, you better admit you're at fault and not complain your ex-employer got petty. You also should get a reference from your supervisor which may or may not suffice as a substitute to your line manager.

Your supervisor won't help you. He isn't in the position to help you anyway. Just because he speaks for you doesn't make you right. Both you and your supervisor will get get a warning or sacked if he does get involved. Like they say, better you than both of us get sacked.

ILW

Have you closed the FB account yet, just to save getting tempted after a few beers?

WasntMe_2

Well looks like i didn't need to ask my supervisor/line manager/person who my comment was about (they're all the same person in case anyone thinks they're separate?) to speak in support of me....

Our department was summoned up today 1-by-1 for a separate thing. Whilst there i took the opportunity to explain how i had been thinking about it last night & that while i understand this wont make everything hunky-dory again, i am sorry for what i have done & how it has wasted the companies time.
I explained that the lesson i learned from the first case was perhaps not the lesson i should've learned - as i took from last time that i shouldn't make my boss or the company look bad, which i haven't done. I didn't learn that ALL work related remarks should be kept off any public media, but i know that now.
I didn't think there was any harm in what i had said, simply because i say that to my co-workers face each day, as do they to me & they to each other as well. It's accepted as part of everyday life. If someone is particularly sensitive then we don't have that sort of banter with them.
I explained i had told my supervisor what the meeting was about & what i had said about him on facebook.
The person i was telling seemed surprised by this. I explained that he took it as it was meant - everyday banter. He laughed about it, didn't have a problem with it & was confused as to why it was being investigated as it goes on every single day, but i finished by apologising again.


Later on my supervisor/line manager, tells me that he's had a phone call.
He was asked if i'd told him about the incident. He said yes.
They asked him to confirm what i had said, so he did. Though he got it wrong - he said i'd called him a "lazy fat bar steward". I >DID< actually tell him what was really said, so i don't know where he got that one from.
He was then asked what he thought of it. He said he didn't care because it's everyday banter. I call him it, he calls me it, it's just banter & we get on with the working day. It's not malicious.
They then asked him if he minded & he said not. It's part & parcel of the job.
They again asked him - and you're ok about that, in a surprised tone. Yes he says.

Ok, goodbye & they hang up (all according to him).

This is the problem - I've no doubt any males working in this type of job on MSE would be able to confirm this type of banter goes on day in day out. I'm not being sexist when i say this, but female office workers are not likely to understand the banter because they're not likely to see it in an office environment. I know if i worked in an office, my potty mouth would be non existant because it's not the environment for it. Around customers i don't swear either & i'm polite, as are my co-workers. It's just to each other that the ribbing flows & some people can't understand our type of banter/humour.

My partner put it to her co-worker who has a husband who works in warehouses. They were gobsmacked when they were told & said that he gets & gives a lot worse than this at his place & it's just accepted as part of working life in THAT type of environment.

I do regret what i said on facebook, because it's open for wrong interpretation, but there's nothing i can do about it now. I just hope they take on board what my supervisor said & that as he's not bothered by it, i hope they don't take it too far.

Either way i do hope it gets sewn up sometime soon as when i get really stressed, i get terrible migraines & yesterday was no exception. My head was set to explode last night & i was getting the same today with constant worry about it & then feeling sick about it too. I'm naturally a worrier, so i just want a line drawn under this asap.

ILW wrote: »

Have you closed the FB account yet, just to save getting tempted after a few beers?

No, i wont be closing the account. I've learned the lesson now that i should've from the first incident.
As said, i thought they just didn't want the business put in a bad light, so when people say "haven't you learned your lesson", well yes i had, it was just the wrong one. I wasn't being sneaky about my supervisor, because we say that stuff to each other on a daily basis, so it was nothing out of the ordinary, so i didn't think any more of it.

That said, i've now learned that ANY remark that is about work or can be remotely linked to work is a complete NO-NO & i wont be doing it again! Not only this, i will not be commenting on any co-workers status updates either (such as the chap who said "get it off your chest" in incident 1 nearly faced a warning).

As such, i will just leave my facebook open to keep in touch with those i don't have face-to-face access with, such as friends abroad etc. Any comments which may put me at risk will NOT happen, even via private messaging.

I just hope my realistation isn't too late.

getmore4less

You might have got away with it, good grovel, the only defense.

You may be suprised at how much banter goes on it is not just traditional male dominated workplaces like building trade, engineering.

WasntMe_2

I really hope so. For many reasons, i don't want to lose my job. I'm hoping for a final warning at best & then just keep my head down. Best case scenario would be for them to take on board my supervisor not caring & just issue me with a "don't be so stupid again", but unfortunately i can't see that happening. I don't know about others, but where i've been concerned, they've always hit me with the strongest punishment possible in the past. If their advisors advise that they COULD take an act to an "XYZ" punishment, then they've done it. No calling me in to say, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time.

And i wasn't trying to say that females or office workers don't have any banter going on. Just that the type of job i'm in, this is the type of banter that goes on. Not just where i work, but elsewhere too, and if someone (female OR male) isn't from that environment & hasn't seen it, then i can't expect them to understand it, but at the same time they could be so 'wrong' passing judgement on it.
For example - they imply that we should all be super dead serious & all nicey nice with each other. "Hey co-worker, how are you this fine morning? I hope you had a good nights sleep & are feeling fresh for today. Here's a big hug to build our team spirit". I'm not from that type of environment, so while it may work for them, it doesn't work for us & it doesn't matter how many people they sack, it'll never happen like that.









As a side note.....

Today was an interesting one. There's a chap who is known throughout as being a bit of a work-shirker.
Anyway, his department finish work. Someone before him, who has to stay. This lad in question is told to go & someone who finishes after him has to stay & help out.

It turns out that the reason this lad was told to go, is because the BOSS said, he didn't want him stopping about as he's a "useless <unt". That's from the boss.

At least when i spoke of my supervisor i called him lazy & lazy people still have a use!! The boss has called me various explitives over the years, as well as other workers. Many accusations thrown our way littered with explitives, some true, some not, but when you see it coming from the top...