Can a mother take a child abroad to live without the fathers consent?

Voyager2002

Farside wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to the forum, I'm in a predicament and it's breaking my heart...

Im a UK citizen (Man) married to a Thai citizen (Woman), I paid for my wifes Indefinite leave to remain permit so can live here permanantly.

We have a 4 month old son, She wants to leave and take him back to her country, I want him to stay with me, I can't lose him!

Can she leave the UK with him without my consent? My son was born in 2012, I am on his birth certificate as the father, I was married to his mother before he was born. We are all still living in the same house (I have always paid every bill and everything else so they both can stay here still).

I don't want my son to end up in Thailand, I've lived there before and to be honest, It isn't a place i want him to live, Not when he can live in the UK, Thailand is a 3rd world country and very poor, no jobs, the ones that are available are very very low paid jobs. not very good education, unless you are very rich and can afford the high class schools. He'll end up with a standard job and living in a room with several other people.

Here in the UK my son will have a dad who loves him, get a good education, Get good free health care on the NHS, Hopefully get a good job. He wouldn't get any of that in thailand. I started a junior cash isa savings account for him too so when he turns 18 he will be able to hopefully get a deposit on a mortgage here in the uk, Something i have never been able to do myself because of the house market prices rising too much and my outgoing bills soaring to much, Atleast he'll be ok.

I have told my wife this too, I explained she can live here no problem, but she tells me she wants to go home, The UK is not what she expected and she misses her family. I told her that it wouldn't bloody be what she expected before she even came here but she refused to listen to me then too lol.

Does anyone know where i stand on this?

Thank you

In practice (and I write from experience) she could very easily get a Thai passport for her baby and use that to leave the country with him. If you believe that this might happen and wish to prevent it, start by seeing a solicitor: Reunite has a list of solicitors who work in Child Abduction, so make contact with one of these. It is possible to arrange a court order very quickly, and without letting the mother know what is happening. Once the order is in place, you can show it to the police and they will issue an "all ports" alert, meaning that staff at all airports will look out for the child and prevent his departure. This alert remains active for just 30 days.

Realistically, if she decides that the marriage is over and asks a court to allow her to look after the baby, the court would almost certainly agree. She would then have permission to take the baby to live in Thailand, and there would be nothing that you could do to stop her.

As others have said, your wife is clearly very distressed. If the two of you still have any kind of marriage, now is the time to think urgently about what would make her happy. Perhaps you should all move to Thailand: despite your comments about the country, many people there enjoy a high quality of life, and it is possible to make a basic living there by teaching English.

Fire_Fox

Farside wrote: »

We can't find any, We both looked here and online but we live in a small village, There are no thai people anywhere near us, She's been here since January 2009 so settling in shouldn't really be an issue now i'd have thought.

Seriously?? According to the World Health Organisation "Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity." Has she been assessed for post natal depression?

Why don't you move to a UK city where there is a Thai population? Neither you nor your wife are going to be happy without your son, and your son isn't going to have the best childhood with a deeply unhappy mother who is isolated from her culture. She may even want her son to experience more of the Thai culture, even learn the language, which seems reasonable to me.

fluffnutter

What was your relationship like before you had your baby? It's important to understand whether she was already homesick or whether this is a sudden change of heart since she had your son.

Don't underestimate how bewildering it is to have a small baby (I know - mine's 13 weeks old) and how isolated she might feel. I don't doubt that she wants her family; she's probably reeling from the pregnancy, birth and the exhaustion that comes with caring for a newborn. She might be suffering with post-natal depression. It's a time when you really need all the support you can find.

If your relationship was sound before you had your son, then work on this and try to see her current feelings as a temporary concern, not necessarily a permanent wish to tear the family apart.

Can you visit Thailand? If you have the money, then why not go for a while so your wife can see her family and show them the new babe? If this is not possible, then try to get your wife to consider seeing how she feels in, say, another six months. Don't issue any ultimatums, just ask her to stick around for a little while longer. Things might seem a lot brighter in a few months, and she might realise that she wants to stay here with you.

meer53

I know you're upset at the moment at the thought of your wife taking your son away but try to see it from your wife's point of view. She's not from the UK, she has recently had a baby and naturally needs her family for support. You haven't mentioned your family, do they support her at all ? I really feel for your wife, the first few months after a baby is born can be horrendous, they can be fantastic, but what i do know is that without my family, i would have sunk into a very deep depression very, very quickly.

I know you love your son and want him with you, but to be honest, your reasons obviously aren't going to impress your wife are they ? Who is to say that your son won't grow up to be happy in Thailand ? She won't see the reasoning behind your hopes for your son as it's not the norm there.

You need to sit down with your wife and have a serious discussion about how you can make this work. I think the suggestion of asking her to wait for 6 months is a good one, i also think she may be suffering from post natal depression, my post natal depression wasn't diagnosed until 18 months after my daughter was born. The sooner you can rule this out, the better.

Are you expecting her to suddenly go back home, is it something she would be able to do ? Does she have access to money for flights etc ? If you suspect she will, then i'd get some advice from a family law solicitor as soon as possible. But, i'd also get your wife to make a doctors appointment too, she must be feeling so lonely.

grey_lady

So ex-wife doesnt like the UK therefore she must have post natal depression? seriously? PND is the exception not the norm, she might just prefer to be back home.

Thanked 899 times in 417 posts :-)

pinkcandyflossprincess

you can go to the court directly and apply for a prohibative steps order, although the onus would be upon you to prove she may take your child abroad without your consent.
this effectively would prevent her from taking the child abroad for more than 28 days without your consent, or at all if the court felt there was real risk of abduction.
passport wise, If it was me (thankfully it isnt) I would apply for a child passport and then keep it with a safe relative. this way if she applys the child already has a passport applied for by you..so that would stop that issue.
all children do need there own passort now which lasts for 5 years.

It all depends on how much you feel she is going to take off with your child.
If this can be worked out between you and is a case of loneliness being a new mom in a different country (and i feel for her there) then id suggest helping her as hard as you can to settle in. (born and bred up north i can feel her pain tbh:eek:)

once you start upon this path it cant be undone though so think hard...if you fear abduction though then the quicker the better as if she did go home then you have little chance if any in getting your child back to england x

Savvy_Sue

grey_lady wrote: »

So ex-wife doesnt like the UK therefore she must have post natal depression? seriously? PND is the exception not the norm, she might just prefer to be back home.

It is, at least, something to be considered, and NOTHING the OP has said indicates that this had even crossed his mind.

GracieP

grey_lady wrote: »

So ex-wife doesnt like the UK therefore she must have post natal depression? seriously? PND is the exception not the norm, she might just prefer to be back home.

Actually about 1 in 10 women suffer from some degree of PND and a woman who does not have family support and is generally unhappy in her environment (like his wife) is significantly more likely to get it. Obviously nobody can diagnose his wife over the internet but to not consider that it may be a problem for her would be, at best, extremely naive.

Fire_Fox

grey_lady wrote: »

So ex-wife doesnt like the UK therefore she must have post natal depression? seriously? PND is the exception not the norm, she might just prefer to be back home.

Thanked 899 times in 417 posts :-)

Nobody said must AFAIK. Sleep deprivation alone can cause persistent low mood and people without social support are more likely to suffer. If you know anything about clinical depression you'd know it makes you concentrate/ focus/ dwell on the negatives in your life and perceived 'mistakes'. I doesn't have to be either or, both can be playing a role, chicken and egg style.