Help!! Robbed by Endsleigh and its not my policy!!

*Rainbow*Warrior*

dawnie_1066 wrote: »

Further to my previous post I have now recieved a letter from Nationwide accepting that they have initially failed me as their customer and have offered me £50 in compensation in full and final settlement of my complaint.
I cannot help but feel this would not have been forthcoming if I hadnt lodged the complaint with the FOS and part of me wants to carry this complaint through as it isnt about the money its the stress this situation has caused and by not responding quickly enough Nationwide have compounded the problem.
Id just like to know they could learn from this and if it happened to another customer they might get better service than I have.
Any suggestions ?

It's my understanding that banks offer this money basically to stop the complaint going any further as it costs them money if it does get referred to the ombudsman. If you feel the £50 isn't sufficient I would recommend you ring them and try to negotiate them up. However, I think £50 is probably a reasonable amount for them to offer. If you decline that and go to the ombudsman there's always a chance they will decide the £50 was too generous and you could end up with less.

All that is aside from the fact that you mentioned you had already referred it to the ombudsman - was that complaint about Nationwide or Endsleigh?

Also, whether the charge was legal or not, I would have thought Endsleigh shouldn't be able to take the funds without some sort of prior notice, which obviously they haven't been able to give you. I would definitely be looking for compensation from Endlseigh as their actions caused you the main problems, not Nationwide. Also, in your position I would complain to the ombudsman about Endsleigh - regardless of what is in their small print it just feels wrong that they can do this when it simply isn't your debt.

dawnie_1066

My complaint to the ombudsman is against Nationwide for failing to act quickly enough. Which they have confirmed in writing was the case hence the offer.
I cannot raise a compaint against Endsleigh as I am not their customer only the policyholder can do that which vindicates the fact that I am not conractually bound by Endsleighs terms and conditions and as such I cannot be held liable for any subsequent debts the policyholder accrues.
I just want my money back ASAP and I will never let anyone use my card to pay for anything again. As previously stated if Endsleigh had stated when I checked to see if it was OK to use third party cards that I would be liable for his debts I wouldnt have let him use it.

magpiecottage

dawnie_1066 wrote: »

I just want my money back ASAP.

If Nationwide has refunded your money and offered you £50 that is probably as much as FOS will award.

On the other hand, if they are offering £50 but, as you seem to be saying, you are still waiting for your money back then that seems to be a breach of FSA rule BCOBS 5.1.11R(2), which says "Where a Where a payment from a banking customer's account was not authorised by the banking customer, a firm must, within a reasonable period, refund the amount of the unauthorised payment to the banking customer and, where applicable, restore the banking customer's account to the state it would have been in had the unauthorised payment not taken place".

The phrase "reasonable period" means that if they have indicated they consider the matter closed without yet recrediting your account would seem to give you reason to have FOS investigate.

dawnie_1066

Nationwide have requested a chargeback from Endleigh through the Visa chargeback system Endsleigh have 30 days in which to respond or I will automatically get a refund.
I just wish the process was quicker my complaint against the Nationwide is that they failed to respond to my chargeback request for 11 days and then only did so when they had notification from FOS there was a compaint against them by me.
It seems I was just fobbed off by them until they had to act.
This whole system stinks and needs sorting out quicker than this.

rudekid48

There's been a lot of emotive use of terms like "stolen" and "robbery" here but maybe it would help to understand how this can happen.

Since the introduction of PCI-DSS security standards over the past couple of years, no organisations are allowed to keep ANY of your card details on file - either paper or electronic. So this situation can happen a lot more often now as organisations do not know if the card used at the time of purchase belongs to their customer or a third party. All that they hold is a 'token' which allows them to re-debit the card, they would not know details such as the cardholder name or address etc.

I am not saying that what Endsleigh have done to you is right, just trying to add a bit of balanmce and explain how it can happen.

My personal view is that once they were made aware of what had happened then they should have refunded you immediately and then pursued your "friend" for the debt. In my opinion that is where Endsleigh have behaved appallingly rather than their use of the card in the first place...

dawnie_1066

With reference to the above post if it is the case that card owner details are not stored then surely companies such as Endsleigh should not accept payment from cards that are not the policyholders the whole internet based insurance system seems flawed.
I realise that the use of terms fraud and robbery are emotive but despite being told it was my card Endsleigh refused to refund so therefore I consider the terms justifiable as they have knowingly taken money they are not legally entitled to.
Still fuming one month later.....

System

should not accept payment from cards that are not the policyholders

If insurance companies were stopped from doing this then I see the result being that if you do not have a debit/credit card then you will not get any insurance, no more cases of a friend helping you out by providing theinitial payment. People will have to return to the high street brokers to get their insurance, however they will probably hit the same problem. The company want the insurance of pulling the owed money from somewhere if somebody defaults etc.

It could be a whole new underclass. People who are unable to get insurance because they can not fund the initial payment on a card in their own name.

rudekid48

dawnie_1066 wrote: »

With reference to the above post if it is the case that card owner details are not stored then surely companies such as Endsleigh should not accept payment from cards that are not the policyholders the whole internet based insurance system seems flawed.
I realise that the use of terms fraud and robbery are emotive but despite being told it was my card Endsleigh refused to refund so therefore I consider the terms justifiable as they have knowingly taken money they are not legally entitled to.
Still fuming one month later.....

That is a fair point but at the same time (as was quoted early on in this thread) their terms are clearly stated on their web site including the fact that they will re-use the card for further debits / credits so therefore the card holder has to accept some of the responsibility for either not reading the terms or thinking through the potential consequences before proceding. But as I said earlier, none of this excuses Endsleighs behaviour once they were aware of the issue.

dawnie_1066

This is the whole crux of the problem as a third party card holder at no point in their third party card information bit do Endsleigh advise that this card will be used should there be a default . This information is only contained in the terms and conditions to the policy holder it should be contained within their third party card information section if it had I wouldnt have consented to its usage.

olly300

I've just read this thread about getting money back from Nationwide.

As someone who has had various complaints with them over the years the best method of complaining is NOT on the phone.

Either:
1. Complain by their messaging service through online banking, OR
2. Send a recorded or better still registered delivery letter to member services.

The two charge backs I've received over the years were first but into my bank account and when the company refunded the money to my account. Nationwide then took the money from my account.

Finally all banks and insurers seem to think giving you a £75 maximum will put you back in the position you should be for complaints like these and the FOS agrees with them.

BTW Dealing with Nationwide in terms of complaints is better than when I dealt with Natwest, RBS and HSBC as least they acknowledge complaints and deal with them much quicker.