What will they get with ESA?

sparkycat2

If someone currently receives

Disability Living Allowance Care Component Highest £77.45 + Mobility Component Lowest £20.55 = £98
Severe Disablement Allowance Basic Rate £69 + Age Related Addition Higher Rate £11.70 = £80.70
Income Support Personal Allowance £71 + Disability (due to SDA and DLA) £30.35 + Enhanced Disability (due to DLA HRC) £14.80 - Income SDA £80.70 = £35.45
TOTAL DLA £98 + SDA £80.70 + IS £35.45 = £214.15

When SDA and Income Support on grounds of disability are migrated to ESA what will they get.

How does ESA effect the Income Support Premiums?

Assuming no change in DLA entitlement.
What benefits would they get if assessed as ESA Support Group?
If assessed as ESA Work Related Activity Group?
What would they get if they were assessed as ESA Work Related Activity Group and ended up sanctioned for non compliance?

mazza1985

Support Group £178.05 a week

WRAG £172.15 a week

This is based on no-one receiving carers allowance for the claimant. This is not taking into account any contribution based ESA as I could not establish if they are entitled or not.

The premiums are paid as income related ESA rather than income support. The rate is reduced to take into account main phase ESA rates.

On your original calculation you missed off severe disability premium, which I believe is £58.20 a week

For all benefit rates please see
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/benefitrates2012.pdf

sparkycat2

mazza1985 wrote: »

Support Group £178.05 a week

WRAG £172.15 a week

This is based on no-one receiving carers allowance for the claimant. This is not taking into account any contribution based ESA as I could not establish if they are entitled or not.

The premiums are paid as income related ESA rather than income support. The rate is reduced to take into account main phase ESA rates.

On your original calculation you missed off severe disability premium, which I believe is £58.20 a week

For all benefit rates please see
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/benefitrates2012.pdf

They do not receive Severe Disability Premium because they do not live alone. They can not due to their care needs. Quite how anyone requiring the level of care needed for DLA MRC or HRC lives alone is a mystery to me.

I think Severe Disability Premium is due to cease to exist anyway when Universal credits comes in, although they appear to be reconsidering this.

mazza1985

sparkycat2 wrote: »

They do not receive Severe Disability Premium because they do not live alone. They can not due to their care needs. Quite how anyone requiring the level of care needed for DLA MRC or HRC lives alone is a mystery to me.

I think Severe Disability Premium is due to cease to exist anyway when Universal credits comes in, although they appear to be reconsidering this.

So subtract £58.20 off both of my figures then. Although it will not be accurate if they have a partner. Do they have a partner or live with a carer or someone else? Does anyone receive carers allowance for them?

Of course people on MRC/HRC can live on their own - it's the amount of care they deem you to need rather than what you receive. Many if my service users on MRC/HRC live on their own - but they have a high level of support! I receive MRC and I work full time. Although admittedly I do have a partner that lives with me.

sparkycat2

mazza1985 wrote: »

So subtract £58.20 off both of my figures then. Although it will not be accurate if they have a partner. Do they have a partner or live with a carer or someone else? Does anyone receive carers allowance for them?

They live with in a sibling's household.

mazza1985 wrote: »

Of course people on MRC/HRC can live on their own - it's the amount of care they deem you to need rather than what you receive.

It is not the amount of care they deem you need it is the amount of care you claim you need on the claim form. That is things you need someone else to do for you or someone to help you do, or the amount of supervision you require to stay safe.

mazza1985 wrote: »

Many if my service users on MRC/HRC live on their own - but they have a high level of support! I receive MRC and I work full time. Although admittedly I do have a partner that lives with me.

MRC is need care throughout the day or need to be watched over at night.
HRC is need care day and night
I would expect people on these level of benefits to not be capable of doing many or most everyday things by themselves. I would expect them to require lots of things to be done for them or lots of assistance in doing things or lots of supervision.
If this is inaccurate maybe the DWP should change how they describe these benefits to better reflect what the care needs are of those who are eligible.

rogerblack

sparkycat2 wrote: »

It is not the amount of care they deem you need it is the amount of care you claim you need on the claim form.

What you put down on the claim form does not determine the outcome in that manner.
The decisionmaker comes to a view on the amount of care you 'really' need - and if it exceeds the legal tests gives you MRC/HRC.

Simply putting down that you need 24 hour care on the claim form doesn't work, if the DM thinks you don't.

sparkycat2

rogerblack wrote: »

What you put down on the claim form does not determine the outcome in that manner.
The decisionmaker comes to a view on the amount of care you 'really' need - and if it exceeds the legal tests gives you MRC/HRC.

Simply putting down that you need 24 hour care on the claim form doesn't work, if the DM thinks you don't.

To me it looks like the decision maker is heavily reliant on the claim form for a detailed description of care needs. They seem to then corroborate that with expert medical evidence obtained from the claimant's own doctor or specialists and then possibly from a medical done by the DWP. Then they seem to go reference the DWP guide book looking up the illness/disability and cross referencing the evidence of severity of condition with the expected level of care and mobility needs. Despite the level of corroborating medical evidence required and cross referencing evidence of severity of condition with expected care needs it looks heavily reliant on the detailed information provided on the claim form.

enabledebra

Unless the ESA will be higher than the existing entitlement to SDA/IS when changing to ESA there is an extra amount added to the ESA award (Transitional Addition) to keep the same level of award initially- the extra award then gradually gets eroded by the amount of annual increases in ESA rates.

full details of the calculations are here:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch45.pdf

NB - DLA is based on the care you reasonably need not what you get, so many people on HRC/HRM live alone.

sparkycat2

Thank you for the posts on ESA.

From currently being on £214.15
When SDA and Income Support on grounds of Disability are replaced by ESA I take it they will get either
ESA Support £119.85 + DLA £98 = £217.85
or
ESA Work-related Activity £113.95 + DLA £98 = £211.95

With the transitional award

SDA Basic Rate + Age Related Additionon is £80.70
ESA Personal Allowance + Work-related Activity is £99.15
So am I right there is no transitional award.
So am I right in thinking that means they will lose money if assessed as ESA WRAG. Since SDA + Income Support = £116.15 but ESA WRAG + enhanced disability premium = £113.95

Since they are currently receiving SDA do they get to transfer to contributions based ESA or income based ESA. If it is contributions based ESA with enhanced disability premium instead of SDA + Income Support with disability and enchanced disability premiums. Does that mean they would no longer be on means tested benefits.


Sorry for going off topic on DLA but I still think it is odd that people can do without needed help with bodily functions or go without needed supervision to avoid substantial danger as it does not seem very advisable or even compatible with staying alive.


Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992


(1)(b) he is so severely disabled physically or mentally that, by day, he requires from another person—
(i)frequent attention throughout the day in connection with his bodily functions; or
(ii)continual supervision throughout the day in order to avoid substantial danger to himself or others;

(1)(c) he is so severely disabled physically or mentally that, at night,—
(i)he requires from another person prolonged or repeated attention in connection with his bodily functions; or
(ii)in order to avoid substantial danger to himself or others he requires another person to be awake for a prolonged period or at frequent intervals for the purpose of watching over him


(4)The weekly rate of the care component payable to a person for each week in the period for which he is awarded that component shall be—

(a)the highest rate, if he falls within subsection (2) above by virtue of having satisfied or being likely to satisfy both the conditions mentioned in subsection (1)(b) and (c) above throughout both the period mentioned in paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above and that mentioned in paragraph (b) of that subsection;

(b)the middle rate, if he falls within that subsection by virtue of having satisfied or being likely to satisfy one or other of those conditions throughout both those periods

enabledebra

If they get IS/SDA of £116.15 in total they will get £116.15 ESA if WRAG and £119.85 in SG (based on your standard ESA calculation) Edit - sorry if they are a couple your ESA rates are wrong-

If you are aged 25 or over, the basic rate is £71 a week for a single person and £111.45 for a couple. After the assessment phase you will also receive an extra £28.15 or £34.05 depending on which group you are in. You will also receive any relevant premiums (see below).
If you are aged under 25, income-related ESA is paid at a basic rate of £56.25 a week during the assessment phase. Once you enter the main phase you will receive the full rate of ESA.
Income-related ESA premiums and their weekly amounts
Enhanced disability premium: £14.80 for a single person or £21.30 for a couple
Severe disability premium: £58.20 for a single person or where one person in a couple qualifies, £116.40 when both people in a couple qualify
Carer premium: £32.60 for each person that qualifies.

SDA migrants will be treated as satisfying ESA NI contribution conditions so the award will be usual mix of Contribution based and any income related ESA due then topped up to £116.15 with TA if needed. DLA would be paid as usual on top of this.

By sanctioned do you mean it's decided they don't satisfy the ESA capacity test and have to appeal?

zzzLazyDaisy

sparkycat2 wrote: »

Sorry for going off topic on DLA but I still think it is odd that people can do without needed help with bodily functions or go without needed supervision to avoid substantial danger as it does not seem very advisable or even compatible with staying alive.

Many many quite severely disabled people live alone.

I have a friend who is bed bound. She is in the support group for ESA and gets DLA HRC/HRM. Her husband was her carer, but he died suddenly from a heart attack two years ago. She has carers coming in 4 times a day, to get her up, put her in her recliner chair, wash her and take her to the toilet and give her breakfast in the morning, the same in reverse in the evening, and also to get her lunch and evening meal.

Friends also come in and take her out in her wheelchair during the day, and stay over night from time to time, but many nights she is on her own.

She doesn't qualify for night care via social services, and DLA isn't enough to pay for night-time care. She uses a commode when she is left on her own.

She is in her late 40's, and it is incredibly difficult to find residential care for people of her age - though I doubt she would want it anyway.

DLA simply does not pay enough to cover the cost of 24hr care, no matter how much the person needs it. So people who live alone have to manage as best they can.