Opinions please? (BTL / HUtH Wanabee!)

GDB2222

Teresa_Green wrote: »

OK, but it is meant to be a relationship?

He is dictating what he wants (my help with planning and paperwork, continue with the relationship) and simultaneously ignoring my needs / withdrawing support that he previously offered?

Used and Abused - Equality anyone?

He is not ignoring your needs. It's just that he is looking long-term, and you are looking short term.

This is a big thing for him. Something he needs to pursue. If it works out well and you are still together, you will benefit in the long run. If you can't support him in that wholeheartedly, then I suggest you end the relationship and stop being a dead weight on his ambitions.

Fire_Fox

This is a relationship not a housing thread. You are a big girl and he is a big boy: don't use abusive language, don't be dictatorial and don't be negative, just concentrate on sorting your own finances and accommodation out.

Helping him write letters and complete forms would be appropriate way to support the person you love. Nobody needs to go to the estate agent, they are legally obliged to submit all offers to the owner whether these are letters or by telephone. They seller may wish to see the mortgage in principle, this can be included with the offer letter.

Consider relationship counselling or let him go to someone who will appreciate and support his (possibly crazy) dreams and doesn't see him as a glorified landlord.

Teresa_Green

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Nobody needs to go to the estate agent, they are legally obliged to submit all offers to the owner whether these are letters or by telephone. They seller may wish to see the mortgage in principle, this can be included with the letter.

Thanks - that is useful to know.

Thanks also to all for advice / suggestions so far - it is good to get perspective from those who I assume are / have been in similar positions to where he is coming from with this GDB2222?

I have stayed in the relationship thus far. I am trying to support him practically, emotionally, financially as best as I can whilst maintaining my own independence and have my own (not insignificant) stuff going on at present too.

I am commuting from my house at the moment, have no issue with this and he still lives about half an hours drive away from my work anyway.

Trouble is he is acually quite clueless it seems about how to go about realising his (possibly crazy!!) dreams and is demanding I support him whilst continuing to support myself too.

The reason I have put this on the Property Forum is because there are people here that could provide input on just how crazy his dreams actually are, so that I can then make an informed decision about how / if to continue supporting him / continue with the relationship.

He is asking a lot at the moment, it is difficult for me and there are negligable gains to be had, as I see it at the moment.

laidbackgjr

I would suggest that you sit down together and look very closely at the finances of this whole plan. From what I read, this is the root cause of the issue, you think this is going to be a risky and expensive process and your boyfriend thinks this is going to make good money.

Without the details of how much savings / income / debts / assets you both already have it's difficult to give a view on this.

It's certainly still possible in the current market to make money from property renovation & btl's. But it's also very easy to lose a lot of money if things go wrong or you make a bad decision.

Jellybean_Jo

Without wanting to sound really harsh, it does seem like you're thinking about this in quite a selfish way.

From what you've said, he doesn't seem to be asking anything unreasonable from you. Perhaps, the financial contribution could be a grey area; but in asking where are we going to live, it's only fair he's expecting some financial contribution if you're wanting to stay with him. You can't expect to stay there rent free or not contribute to any bills if it's going to be a long term thing. At the same time, as it's his house not your joint house, I don't see why he should have to take your job/commuting issues into account. If it was a house you both owned and he was wanting to do what he wanted, and disregarding your needs then that would be a whole other story.

Your role here should be that of the 'supportive partner', pointing out your concerns (which it sounds like you've already done) and then being there to support him if/when it goes wrong. If you can't do that, I don't think it can be blamed on him.

Teresa_Green

Thanks laidbackgjr that is exactly the kind of input I am looking for, I can give more information if you think you can help further?

jo, he is wanting us to live together, just totally unwilling to buy a house just to live in even though I would be paying half of that. The current plan has come about because he has found a house then started to demand that I do all the actual researching and arranging of the details. I have said that I do not want to be financially involved as there is no point me buying a building site as I would not know what to do with it!!

The commuting is only an issue because he is still wanting to continue the relationship and live together, I chose this job on the back of that and the plan was to find a house together longer term. Now he is picking a house we cannot live in for at least several months (see upthread for his reasons) and it is coming up to winter. He is removing the option of suitable accomodation together and refusing to negotiate on a viable alternative in the shorter term which compromises me in regards to my employment situation. Yet according to you I am still expected to fully support him, do you really think that is reasonable?

Jellybean_Jo

Teresa_Green wrote: »

Thanks laidbackgjr that is exactly the kind of input I am looking for, I can give more information if you think you can help further?

jo, he is wanting us to live together, just totally unwilling to buy a house just to live in even though I would be paying half of that. The current plan has come about because he has found a house then started to demand that I do all the actual researching and arranging of the details. I have said that I do not want to be financially involved as there is no point me buying a building site as I would not know what to do with it!!

The commuting is only an issue because he is still wanting to continue the relationship and live together, I chose this job on the back of that and the plan was to find a house together longer term. Now he is picking a house we cannot live in for at least several months (see upthread for his reasons) and it is coming up to winter. He is removing the option of suitable accomodation together and refusing to negotiate on a viable alternative in the shorter term which compromises me in regards to my employment situation. Yet according to you I am still expected to fully support him, do you really think that is reasonable?

Ok, well you didn't say any of that before (that I can see). To be fair I think his reasons are probably good ones. The market is in a right state and if he doesn't want to buy an overpriced shoe box then that's fair enough.

It also seems like you've already made your mind up, so I'm still not sure what you want from this board. You've even said that it's come about because he still wants to continue the relationship. If you don't want to continue the relationship just walk away and let him get on with it.

GDB2222

He has found a house to buy at a "bargain price" and then intends to do a full renovation on top of continuing to work a 70 hour plus week (physical outdoor job). To fund this he is also then going to remortgage his own house to fund the renovation, which will then need to be rented out to cover the cost. The house is a three bed semi and has not been touched for approx 40 years but is a good size and in a good location. He cannot do the work himself other than preparation work - he previously renovated his current Terraced House with help of Friends and his Dad a few years ago who is now 64 years of age. He has a Builder friend who says he can help with new project.

Leaving aside the relationship angle, and your question "where are we going to live", this could be a viable project. How can anyone here possibly tell? It sounds like the house is a doer-upper, and your boyfriend is prepared to do a lot of the work himself or can hire in help cheaply. That's a good basis for a wannabe developer to work from.

However, he needs to have a detailed spec for the work, together with costings. He should add 25% to this for contingencies. He then needs to work out how much the done-up house can sell for (less say 3% for selling costs).

Does that yield a decent profit of say 20% of the house value? If so, it sounds viable. If not, he could knock himself out working on this for nothing, or even make a loss. Even if he makes only a minimal profit in the end, it's still good experience, and he'll do better next time. If it is not viable, it could be that the house is not such a bargain as he thinks, so he should go back and renegotiate the price.

He has a terrific advantage as he can finance the project for almost nothing by living in squalor onsite and renting out his own house. Good luck to him, if that is what he wants to do. Sooner or later, he'll have kids to worry about, so he should give this a go now. It's very courageous of him, and he obviously needs a lot of encouragement.

That brings me back to "where are we going to live". It sounds like you are sorted where you are, and he is prepared to live with his parents or on onsite. So, what's the problem? I entirely agree with him that it would be daft to rent out his own place then rent somewhere else himself. Where's the benefit in that?

You can help him by going through the paperwork and getting him to make detailed costings. You can hinder him in all sorts of ways that it sounds like you have already tried. I suspect that you are possibly 'catastrophising', which is quite negative. All sorts of project can be made to work, but it requires a positive approach.

Teresa_Green

Jellybean_Jo wrote: »

Ok, well you didn't say any of that before (that I can see). To be fair I think his reasons are probably good ones. The market is in a right state and if he doesn't want to buy an overpriced shoe box then that's fair enough.

It also seems like you've already made your mind up, so I'm still not sure what you want from this board. You've even said that it's come about because he still wants to continue the relationship. If you don't want to continue the relationship just walk away and let him get on with it.

I have stated most of the above already, in different ways.

I agree on the state of the market but he is also being very stubborn and compromising the relationship in the process, one which he says he wants to continue. Overpriced shoeboxes do not come into it here either.

If I had already made my mind up then I would not be here asking for advice - as an independent person responsible for her own life and choices I like to make informed decisions.

Apologies if you are struggling to understand that.

Teresa_Green

GDB2222 wrote: »

Leaving aside the relationship angle, and your question "where are we going to live", this could be a viable project. How can anyone here possibly tell? It sounds like the house is a doer-upper, and your boyfriend is prepared to do a lot of the work himself or can hire in help cheaply. That's a good basis for a wannabe developer to work from.

However, he needs to have a detailed spec for the work, together with costings. He should add 25% to this for contingencies. He then needs to work out how much the done-up house can sell for (less say 3% for selling costs).

Does that yield a decent profit of say 20% of the house value? If so, it sounds viable. If not, he could knock himself out working on this for nothing, or even make a loss. Even if he makes only a minimal profit in the end, it's still good experience, and he'll do better next time. If it is not viable, it could be that the house is not such a bargain as he thinks, so he should go back and renegotiate the price.

He has a terrific advantage as he can finance the project for almost nothing by living in squalor onsite and renting out his own house. Good luck to him, if that is what he wants to do. Sooner or later, he'll have kids to worry about, so he should give this a go now. It's very courageous of him, and he obviously needs a lot of encouragement.

That brings me back to "where are we going to live". It sounds like you are sorted where you are, and he is prepared to live with his parents or on onsite. So, what's the problem? I entirely agree with him that it would be daft to rent out his own place then rent somewhere else himself. Where's the benefit in that?

You can help him by going through the paperwork and getting him to make detailed costings. You can hinder him in all sorts of ways that it sounds like you have already tried. I suspect that you are possibly 'catastrophising', which is quite negative. All sorts of project can be made to work, but it requires a positive approach.

Thanks GDB2222 for taking time to carefully respond in a very useful way, very much appreciated .

OK, the house is in an area close to very good schools, houses nearby in good condition have sold for around £165,000 in last two years. This is a 3 bed Semi 1930s, family house. The road outside is busy at school times but not a main road as such it is a side street. I have viewed last week with Boyfriend (he has also viewed on his own before that) - obviously not been touched for 40 years plus, polystyrene ceilings etc. small shanty kitchen extension on the back (single glazed). Generally larger than other semis in the area, 3rd bedroom relatively good size. Builder friend has without seeing property other than pictures on rightmove suggested £20k for all necessary work (I am a nurse not a builder but suggestions to boyfriend that it might be closer to £30,000 have been poo pooed). There is the element of the unknown of course and also selling costs to consider. Been on market a few months, owner has died. Price originally 150, then offers over 140 we have verbally offered 120 and this has provisionally / verbally been accepted by vendor "but no lower". I have done most of the telephone calls to achieve this and also worked out how the finances are going to work as Boyfriend has asked me to. I can also say that he will want to avoid too many survey fees...

Based on what you have said, the profit is going to be limited as I suspected - even if he sells for 165. So not that viable but may still be good experience - thoughts?

Builder is OK, I have met him a few times and is ready to start immediately. Have seen examples of his other work in the area - very impressed however aware of how dependent on him we would be.

Regarding living situation it may be that I will have to rent a house myself and let him live in that for now!!