Esa decision - what do i do now?

TOBRUK

I received the ESA50 form in August and it was sent back end of August. Yesterday I received a brown envelope and expected to find a date for an assessment, however, instead it was a decision - I have been placed in the WORK-RELATED ACTIVITY GROUP.

I have tried to read a little on what this means and from what I gather I will receive ESA for 1 year and if I am not then in work I shall lose ESA and be placed on JSA?!

I don't know what to do next, whether to appeal or just leave it.

Some of you will know a little of my history and problems I have had. In short I have suffered with ME since 1997 and eventually had to leave employment in 2000. Since then things have gone from bad to worse and following a number of accidents and illness (also have a disability) I was given little choice, and after health workers advice had to move from a house to a bungalow and move 100 miles to live near family so that I had a support network. They look out for me and give help and support.

The decision to make this move was final after falling downstairs beginning of last year, ending up in hospital with fractured skull and broken hand and wrist.

There is no way I will be able to work and I am extremely worried and don't know what to do next. I thought that after filling in this ESA50 form I would then have to be assessed before they made a decision. Although I was dreading the assessment it seems they haven't read the form properly and have decided to place me in the work group!

Do I appeal this decision? Will it make any difference? I really would appreciate your advice although I know many of you are in a worse situation than I.

rogerblack

Several issues.
First, if you have little income, or savings, and do not have a working partner, your award is not time limited.
Second, if it is, you can continue to claim for NI credits.

Have you read the descriptors that apply to ESA?
I am planning to publish the arguments for the support group I'm making at tribunal tomorrow, sometime later this week, which you may find of use. I also have ME/CFS.
Can you give an outline of why you think you should be in the support group?

TOBRUK

Hi Roger,
Thank you for your reply. From your first point: I live alone and only income is ESA and DLA. I have no savings.

Can you give an outline of why you think you should be in the support group?

To be honest Roger I don't know which group I should expect to be in. I have read about ESA on the 'Directgov' website and when it says

The changes will:
limit the amount of time people in the Work-Related Activity Group (ie those not in the Support Group) can receive contribution-based Employment Support Allowance to 365 days,

from that I have understood that after a year the amount of benefit I receive will change and drop - moved to JSA. I have also read the letter I received yesterday a few times.

Also from what I have read, if you are placed in the 'support group' they will keep you on ESA with the same level of payments and not expect you to work.

So do they expect people that are placed in the 'work' group to be back in employment within a year, or do they assess you again after a year to see if you are eligible for ESA?

I may have interpreted the information incorrectly, but the more I try and understand the more confused I get! My understanding of it may be totally wrong.

Are they saying when placed in ESA work group that you are fit to work? Do some who fill in the ESA50 get refused ESA and placed on JSA?

rogerblack

You are not entitled to contribution based after 365 days.
This is based on your NI contributions.
For income based, there is no limit.
If you do not have savings, other income, or a working partner, your ESA will remain in payment.

martin57

Usually I am not the worst at getting my head around things, but the terminology used for work related activity group (limited capability for work), and support group (limited capability for work related activity) is mind boggling.

Would it not have been better to call them the work and support groups?

Am I the only one that feels this way, could they not have used a simple rmore clear way of explaining things?

Martin57

TOBRUK

Thank you for your responses.

Martin

Would it not have been better to call them the work and support groups?

If you are asking me why I haven't called them to ask, I felt I needed to try and understand a bit about the situation before calling them, otherwise I wouldn't know what to ask them.

Roger, thank you again for the information. Dare I ask - about how much money would my benefit drop without 'contribution based' part?

So would you say that being placed in 'work-focused group' is fine and there isn't much difference in 'support group' so no need to appeal this decision? If so, why are some unhappy that they haven't been placed in 'support group'?

I have been placed in this group without being seen, is this normal?

Sorry for all these questions but if I am to appeal I have less than 4 weeks to do so.

rogerblack

It's complex.
If you have no other income, or considerable savings, or a partner, then the amount paid is exactly the same without the contributions based amount.

The difference financially is basically about 20 pounds a week.

(4 pounds difference between the support group component, 14 pounds from the enhanced disability premium)

The non-financial differences are unfortunately more problematic to outline.
They basically depend on how the person who sees you for your 'work focussed interviews' sees you.
Do they understand your condition, or believe you are malingering?

Ideally, work focussed interviews will help you focus on possibly keeping in contact with the world of work in some manner, perhaps encouraging relevant training or work experience.

(this has been my experience, the people I've been in contact with have been helpful, and though I've been referred onto the work program for some reason I do not understand, the work program provider has said basically that they are not going to call me again, as they can see they can't help me)

Work focussed interviews are a requirement of being in the work-related group, and if the person believes that it is appropriate, you can be required to perform certain 'work related activities' - which now only exclude only actually applying for work, doing paid work, and undergoing medical treatment.

It can, worst case amount to unlimited full-time work placement for nominal payment. (I question if this has ever, or will ever happen, but the legal framework for it exists).

Some people are placed in either group without being seen.
This is if they do not feel a medical is required to decide which group you are in.
It is probably worth phoning, and asking for a copy of the medical report - the ES85A - this is the medical report prepared for the DWP by ATOS, to give a medical view on your condition.

I would get this, and see how you stand.
In principle, an appeal can also remove your award, so if you are 'borderline' - you may want to consider leaving your existing award alone.

I believe Martin was commenting on the poor naming of the groups, rather than asking why you hadn't called them

TOBRUK

thank you again Roger. Unfortunately there is no chance that I would be able to work, it is as much as I can do to get through the day at home. I moved 'back home' to live near my family to receive help. I have also made adaptions to the bungalow I live in. The bathroom was changed and handrails placed there and a chair attached to the wall in the shower etc. I have days when it is impossible to get dressed! If I get visitors it wears me out and have to go to lie down. I haven't had a social life at all since 1997.

It is probably worth phoning, and asking for a copy of the medical report - the ES85A - this is the medical report prepared for the DWP by ATOS, to give a medical view on your condition.

I think I shall phone them (MAYBE TOMORROW) and hopefully they will send this quickly so that I have enough time to appeal within 4 weeks from the date from the letter if I decide to do so.

You are right it is complex! When I showed the letter yesterday to my sister when she called, she read it and said 'what! How could you possibly work?! Another point is that there is no work around here and it is a rural area. The reason I moved 100 miles away (leaving family and friends) in the first place was to get a job! I didn't care where I went as long as I got employment!

Nobody would employ me around here ... the thing is, I wouldn't employ me the way I am now!! I get around using a crutch and have no use of right arm, that on top of the M.E!

sunnyone

its so nice to see you posting again TOBRUCK, maybe when you feel up to it you can update us all to whats going on in your life at the moment?

TOBRUK

Hi sunnyone, and everyone else I have posted to who have helped me in the past! Yes it's been a while, I don't think I have posted more than twice since I moved to be near family over a year ago! Back then I was worried about the transaction of benefits as I was moving 100 miles away and had to write to the benefits office and have everything transferred to another county. Well everything actually changed quite smoothly and all departments were extremely helpful.

Having to register with a new GP and trying to fill him in, changing to hospital clinics nearer was more of a job! I have seen a difference because it has been strange trying to build a relationship with a new GP! This GP is difficult to talk to and your not always sure that he is listening to what you have to say - it all feels awkward! I don't feel comfortable at all with this GP.

The only drawback living here is that the nearest hospital is 25miles away and all rural roads, it takes an hour to drive the 25 miles! Last week I had an appointment at a hospital which was around 60miles away. where I was living the hospital was only 2miles away.

I settled into my bungalow quite quickly. I did make some alternations to the bathroom, moved the toilet so as I could have a grabrail to my left, and changed the shower unit to a low profile. I have a seat attached to the wall in the shower.

It is very different living here and my family come often and I'm able to have so much more help. It has been a big change as I didn't see anyone from one day to the next where I was living before.

The changes to benefits now is worrying everyone as gradually everyone is getting letters of changes to their benefit. As I have said here, I have just received a letter to say that I have been placed on 'work-related' group of ESA. Since I received the letter on Monday it has taken me all week to get to grips with trying to understand what it means for me!

Well a couple of hours ago I telephoned the number on that letter 'jobcentre plus' and spoke to a lovely woman who was extremely helpful. I said that I had been placed on 'work-related' group and asked if she could tell me what it entailed, also how they came to this decision. After a few minutes of speaking to her she said she could email the benefits office to request a written report if I wanted (as she didn't have that information on their system) and she is doing that. I explained I wasn't sure whether I should appeal or not but would like to see this first.

I aked if I would lose benefit after one year so she checked what they had placed me on, it was contribution based. She asked if I had any other income etc and then she said that they should have placed me on income-related and she was going to request it - I DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE THOSE MIXED UP but she is requesting I be put on the right one for me which I hadn't been!

She then said that she thought I really should appeal!! I was taken aback to be honest, I hadn't said that I thought I should be in the 'support group' or anything at all. Through speaking to her I had said a little of how things were for me and had answered a few questions she had asked.

She said that she would request an appeal so that if I decide after I read the report I would have the papers ready. I asked if I would receive the report in time as I only had 3 weeks left to appeal the decision. She told me not to worry and that the timescale wasn't set in stone! If I was to be a little late just make a note to explain why and it would be ok.

She again told me not to worry and to take care.

So now I will wait for their report (as I haven't seen anyone since sending in the ES50 form, no assessment!) and then think what to do.

She also told me that when I appeal to send as much information as possible even written statement from family on my condition, what they do for me etc.

PHEW! SORRY FOR THIS LONG ONE!!:)

TOBRUK

Today I received 'Medical Report Form' (ESA85A) through the post, made by a Registered Nurse - Approved Disability Analyst. On top it has

'Advice - I advise that the person meets the criteria for having limited capability for work. Prognosis - I advise that a return to work is unlikely for at least 2 years.

Why then place me in the 'work group'?

It also suggests

'The available evidence does not suggest that the client has severely restricted musculo-skeletal function, such that they would be unable to mobilise more than 50 metres'.

A lot of the medication I have is for muscle and joint pain as well as nerve pain. One of the symptoms with ME is musculo-skeletal pain and function.

Walking a few metres is painful. Walking any distance tires me out and if I go anywhere I have to be parked near to where I need to go as walking is not only painful but exhausting. Thinking of walking 50 metres or more ... well ... I wrote in the ESA50 form that I am unable to walk far and that I am in pain without walking at all!

The last sentence in her report says

The available evidence suggests improvement is unlikely in the longer term

!! Now I do think I shall write and ask them to reconsider placing me in the 'support group' rather than the 'work group' which they have done, although just thinking about writing any more to them is really tiring. Is it really worth it?