garage saying not entitled to vat relief even after deal done and signed for. help!!!

oddies

hi all,
we brought a new car volvo v70 and have brought 5 other volvo's two from same garage. ordered 23 july and everything was signed up, i am disabled with mutiple sclerosis ( higher rate ) and had bars for wheelchair and mobilty scooter fitted also have a hoist adaption. ( this is not fitted in new car but still have it )went on holiday and car was due to be picked up 22 sept inbetween time the salesman we were dealing with left, no one informed us. husband phoned on the thursday before we were due to pick up only to be told salesman had left and most things were not even ready, not taxed as disabled, log book not taxed disabled, had not fitted bar for wheelchair, ( they did not even know how ) finance was not in place and lots of other things not ready. anyway we finally got the new car after 4 1/2 hours of waiting while they sorted everything out. had to be taken back two days later to fit bars for wheelchair and moblity scooter hubby came off motorway only for something to fly up and rip his back tyre to shreds costing £179. plus had to pay vat even though i am exempt. now the garage manager has phoned up saying he does not think we should have the rights for tax relief on car. he's totally stressing me out, sorry this is long and drawn out but i just don't know where i stand any longer. it's just one total nightmare :mad:

Richie-from-the-Boro

oddies wrote: »

hi all,
we brought a new car Volvo v70 and have brought 5 other Volvo's two from same garage. ordered 23 july and everything was signed up, i am disabled with mutiple sclerosis ( higher rate ) and had bars for wheelchair and mobilty scooter fitted also have a hoist adaption. ( this is not fitted in new car but still have it )went on holiday and car was due to be picked up 22 sept in-between time the salesman we were dealing with left, no one informed us. husband phoned on the Thursday before we were due to pick up only to be told salesman had left and most things were not even ready, not taxed as disabled, log book not taxed disabled, had not fitted bar for wheelchair, ( they did not even know how ) finance was not in place and lots of other things not ready. anyway we finally got the new car after 4 1/2 hours of waiting while they sorted everything out. had to be taken back two days later to fit bars for wheelchair and moblity scooter hubby came off motorway only for something to fly up and rip his back tyre to shreds costing £179. plus had to pay vat even though i am exempt. now the garage manager has phoned up saying he does not think we should have the rights for tax relief on car. he's totally stressing me out, sorry this is long and drawn out but i just don't know where i stand any longer. it's just one total nightmare :mad:

Where's the paperwork from the salesman [now gone elsewhere] you did the initial contract with ? the (1) sales invoice should show VAT at 0 per cent, and you should have been given a copy of the VAT declaration. Given the 5 previous deals with this retailer they will have dealt with 'declaration' issues before and all your previous details and transactions will be readily available to them they don't seem to be doing the job right.

I assume your retailer knows its not a case of you having to pay the VAT to him - him to HMRC and then you or he claiming it back from HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) .. .. it has to come off at source.

kurgon

VAT can only come off the adaptations, not the Car. It's only motability cars that now qualify for zero rating. However, if the invoice states that there is VAT payable there may be a case to argue. In the end, possession is 9/10ths of the law.....

oddies

hi all,
thank you for your response, we have the origanal paperwork from the origanal salesman ( who has now left ) it states on paperwork NO VAT due to adaptions. my husband has now had a phone call from the garage saying they want to come and pick up the car today :eek: and bring his old car back as the adaptions to car for mobilty scooter are not VAT exempt, they was told we had a hoist from the old car for wheelchair lifting but the salesman said the bar would be sufficent for VAT purposes we left the bar with salesman ( who has now left ) to be fitted when car arrived in showroom, no bar was fitted , husband had to go over 5 days later for them to fit bar and they took photo's of the bar. ask husband to send phtos of ramps and everything would be in order for VAT purposes. now garage is saying as the hoist was not fitted at the time we cannot be exempt from VAT. my husband has all prevouis paperwork from all cars all stating NO VAT or VAT exempt. thank you

Richie-from-the-Boro

kurgon wrote: »

VAT can only come off the adaptations, not the Car. It's only motability cars that now qualify for zero rating. However, if the invoice states that there is VAT payable there may be a case to argue. In the end, possession is 9/10ths of the law.....

Unless oddies is giving scrambled info I assumed the vehicle was substantially and permanently wheelchair adapted.

"""if you are a wheelchair user, you won’t have to pay VAT on motor vehicles for your own personal or domestic use that are designed or substantially and permanently adapted to enable you to enter and drive, or enter and be carried in the vehicle"""

oddies

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Unless oddies is giving scrambled info I assumed the vehicle was substantially and permanently wheelchair adapted.

"""if you are a wheelchair user, you won’t have to pay VAT on motor vehicles for your own personal or domestic use that are designed or substantially and permanently adapted to enable you to enter and drive, or enter and be carried in the vehicle"""

hi richie,
i maybe giving scrambled info as i am so stressed, yes the car was subsantially adapted for wheelchair, we have rang county contact and have now got to ring hm customs and explain to them see where we stand. i shall get back to you all when i have spoken with them. thank you again x

Chorlie

I've had several VAT Zero Rated Cars (Volvo's)....

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageLibrary_PublicNoticesAndInfoSheets&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_CL_000128#P161_10472

1st - You have to be a permintant wheelchair or stretcher user and the vehicle has to be adapted for you to either, enter / exit, travel in or drive the said vehicle and the adaptions have to be fitted before you take delivery of the vehicle. If this is the case you don't pay VAT on the whole cost of the vehicle including the adaptions; if your not classed as a permanent wheelchair / stretcher user but you are disabled or have the adaption fitted after you've taken delivery then you can only get the VAT off the cost of the adaptions.

2nd - A disabled person with a degenerative condition, such as multiple sclerosis, who does not need to use a wheelchair all the time, but only when the condition requires it, also qualifies as a wheelchair user. However a mobility scooter is not a wheelchair for VAT purposes.

3rd - It will show on the paper work given to you by the salesman when you ordered the car if there is any VAT on the vehicle and you have to sign the HMRC VAT declaration to confirm that you meet the rules for a Zero Rating and the dealership have to counter sign it also, my dealer wanted a Doctors letter to confirm it (to cover themselves) even tho its clear at first sight I meet the rules.

4th - Getting the adaptions fitted by the dealer is questionable, I always have new hand controls fitted by a hand control supplier and they bill the dealer direct. My friend used to swap his hand controls over by the dealer and HMRC advised they need evidence to show adaptions have been fitted and therefore would expect to see a bill for this, my friend now gets a hand control supplier to swap them over and they bill the dealer for doing this, who in-turn added it as an extra to the invoice of the car (less any VAT) therefore everyone has the evidence.

5th - Swapping adaptions over, could also be a very grey area; since the rules state 'permanently adapted for the carriage of a disabled wheelchair user' therefore if its been permanently adapted how can they be swapped over.....!!! and if the adaptions are removed from a vehicle then does that vehicle become VAT liable...!!! This is why I have new adaptions each time and sell my old car to the deal (Part Ex.) as an adapted vehicle (I leave the adaptions fitted, for them to do with as they please) making sure this is noted on the invoice of my new car as proof if there is any come back.

6th - You can't get a Vehicle Zero VAT Rated if there is car finance on the vehicle i.e. have a car loan, because you don't own the vehicle the finance company does until the last payment is made, therefore the vehicle doesn't belong to you but the finance company and since they aren't a permintant wheelchair user they can't get the VAT Zero Rated. However you can take out a personal loan to buy the vehicle, then it would be in your name so you can get the vehicle Zero Rated for VAT.

"5.2 Can I zero rate vehicles supplied to finance houses?
No. Supplies to businesses are standard-rated – see paragraph 2.7. The finance house is purchasing the adapted vehicle for business purposes."

Richie-from-the-Boro

oddies wrote: »

hi richie,
i maybe giving scrambled info as i am so stressed, yes the car was subsantially adapted for wheelchair, we have rang county contact and have now got to ring hm customs and explain to them see where we stand. i shall get back to you all when i have spoken with them. thank you again x

My reading of this issue (1) is one of contract not VAT / HMRC. What appears to be the case is that the dealership already had an 'eligibility declaration by yourself' that with adaptations made the vehicle VAT exempt because it was 'substantially and permanently adapted' - meaning it could only be of specific and not general benefit to the disabled and therefore VAT exempt. That appears to be down to the dealership not yourself.

The technical contract issue (2) is the VAT exemption happens when the adaptations happen, and in this is answered with ' left the bar with salesman ( who has now left )' and it was not fitted in time as you arranged. That appears to be down to the dealership not yourself.

The third technical issue (3) more than adequately covered by Chorlie, who is wise in this area - read what he says - is the technical 'ownership' one - can I assume you didn't purchase on any kind of credit agreement ?

It's a pretty weak case the dealership is putting forward. All if not 100% of all of this is down to them. It is their fault a previous employee screwed up, its also their responsibility. Neither you nor the garage can make a retrospective claim against HMRC.

Assuming you meet the three conditions above, in your shoes :

- I'd tell the dealership you want the vehicle and adaptations as arranged and that its down to them to put it right at no cost to yourself
- tell the dealership you want a 'rewind' at no cost to yourself. Swap vehicles back its down to them to put it right at no cost to yourself
- then go elsewhere to purchase this and any subsequent vehicle
- with a total of 6 vehicles bought by you over the years this is a particularly shoddy relationship

NOTE : the full details including telephone number is in here

oddies

Thank you chorlie :beer: and Riche-from-the-Boro :beer:
we have been in-touch with hm customs and they cannot see the problem their advise is to tell the garage to fit the hoist and we are now canceling the loan and paying out-right ( we only took the loan on advise of origanal salesman which was 0% ) this has been a total shambles and we know it's all the garages fault and we shall be contacting volvo as soon as everythings sorted out. county contact have told us all paperwork is legal and binding when we signed.

Richie-from-the-Boro

oddies wrote: »

Thank you chorlie :beer: and Riche-from-the-Boro :beer:
we have been in-touch with HM customs and they cannot see the problem their advise is to tell the garage to fit the hoist and we are now cancelling the loan and paying out-right ( we only took the loan on advise of original salesman which was 0% ) this has been a total shambles and we know it's all the garages fault and we shall be contacting Volvo as soon as everything's sorted out. county contact have told us all paperwork is legal and binding when we signed.

- good I'm pleased you are sorted
- the 'disabler' issue was the one of 'ownership'
- and I note that the usually inflexible HMRC have accommodated a retrospective !

Dibbles1960

I had the same nightmare scenario when buying my volvo xc90 from Harratt's in Sheffield.

They're actually lying to you.

It's nothing to do with you.

It's the fact they don't know how to do the paperwork if you have the 0% finance.

They messed up our finance due to the VAT relief and asked us to fill in the paperwork for them again almost six months later.

Then they didn't even ask us, just did a deal with the volvo financiers to issue a new agreement almost a year later.

I had a nightmare buying my car from them, changing the price and taking a month to organise fitting the hoist.