Parking Changes for landowners from 1st Ost

trichens

Hi I hope someone can help me with this query.
We have a number of parking bays on our premises so private land, which will allow customers to use at no charge.
We are in an area where parking is sometimes difficult so the car parking actually gives us an edge over local competition.

With the no clamping law coming into force how do we stop non customers from using our parking?
It's impractical for us to have chains across the entrance as people come and go at various times, and we can't afford to have someone employed to "police" the parking.

We looked at companies like FlashPark which may put off some people but we'd like something a bit more reliable. It's no good us losing custom to other businesses because someone not trading with us in in our parking bays.

As far as I can see we could possibly get the Police involved as to access the car parking cars have to cross a footway/path and Highway Code Rule 145 states: “You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of an emergency“.

As they would not be "gaining lawful access" then surely the Police should be able to act?

Any advice would be really welcome.

taffy056

It's very difficult to advice when we don't know the lay of the land, most people here would suggest barriers that perhaps you can put up or down in the shop, or posts that can be removed. But as I said its difficult to advise. One thing about companies like flash park is that you could drive custom away by the way they chase people. One thing is for sure is that if you want to protect your car park you'll have to pay to do so, like you'd do for protecting your business premises.

peter_the_piper

Its a difficult one. All PPC's look on this as a way of making themselves money instead of offering a way of controlling parking. I doubt that any ppc will manage a parking area except for their own ends.

trichens

So it would seem that we will have to pay for inconsiderate, selfish drivers who will see the change in the law as a free for all with regards to parking on private land?

A barrier isn't practical as we'd need someone to man it about 12 hours a day and we'd have to have a barrier 40ft long. A barrier would also be very expensive to install. Chain may seem like a solution but we'd need to be forever going out to remove it and replace it, and a chain across would discourage the casual passer-by customer to come in as as they would think that they can't park.

Obvious solution would be perhaps to block in anyone not a customer. If they have parked somewhere they shouldn't then they can't really complain if somebody was to park adjacent to them so they either can't gain access to the vehicle or move it can they?
I'me not talking about parking another vehicle behind them as there isn't space for this, but if a car was to be parked either side so they could not open the doors of their vehicle...

taffy056

Blocking in would also be illegal I'm afraid, they could call the police as its a criminal offence. I'm sorry this is not the answer you are looking for, but clamping and holding someone to ransom for obscene amounts of money is not either.

Like all landowners in a similar situation you've got to make a hard choice here, if you want your car park protected you will have to pay for it, and you need people who can survey your needs to get it right, paying a few grand getting the correct mechanism in place is an investment to your business which will be tax deductible and will return the outlay in years to come.

The cheap option of having clampers who are scum has gone for you.

esmerobbo

What did you do before clamp?

If you never clamped then why would it change on the 1st Oct?

If you did clamp I would presume you lost customers by the threat of being clamped.

There is nothing stopping you putting notices up saying charges will apply, but if you employ a PPC they will do more damage then good as already posted.

trichens

No need to clamp to date. It seems that generally a "Private Parking - Customers only" sign works with only a handful of people ignoring this notice. However we are on the edge of a Controlled Parking Zone, which will give you 1 or 2 hours free parking, that is due to expand to include our road so we're expecting cars that currently park all day to be looking for somewhere else.

Regards blocking access to vehicles, should a customer park their vehicle inconsiderately there's not really much we can do about it apart from ask them not to is there? Anyway the point is that's private land so surely a civil matter which is surely the whole point behind the "no clamping on private land" changes?

Also note that as mentioned above to be able to use the car parking the car would have to be driven over a public footway which is illegal unless it's to gain LEGAL ACCESS to property. As it's private property and they do not have a legal right to access without permission then the would have broken that law.
Anything with MUST in the Highway Code will a have a reference to particular law. So if they were it get the Police involved they would also have to explain how the vehicle got to where is was parked without being driven across the footway.

taffy056

The clamping ban is specific, if you block in someone it's a criminal offence even on private land, it's not likely the police would charge anyone except the vehicle that is blocking in the other would have to be moved. A FPN could be issued though and if the vehicle is not moved that could be towed as its a legal tow which is still allowed.

As for the pavement issue dion't think you'll get far as its private land on the other side it will be a civil matter. It's a very awkward situation I can see with the CPZ so close to you, but there is no easy answers. And we can't give you a solution on an Internet forum as we cannot know all the circumstances.

System

Highway Code Rule 145 states: “You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or bridleway"

The problem with enforcing this is that a Police Constable must actually see the offence being committed (I.E. the vehicle traversing the pavement) not just the after effect of the vehicle being in your car park.

taffy056

The thing is that a lot of the Highway Code is not law I believe , and as parking is mostly been decriminalised in a lot of areas the police won't get involved in any case.

trichens

The pavement driving is covered by Highways Act 1835 sect 72 & Road Traffic Act. 1988 sect 34.
Anything in Highway Code with MUST is covered by an enforceable law.

Of course if Police were called because of obstruction then they would be present when the vehicle was moved. Admittedly the vehicle would be moving across the footway to the road which would be legal.

How do you stand if you have specific opening and closing times for a car park and a vehicle remains in the car park after closing time. Local council run public car park is open 7am to 7pm and they have barriers locked outside of these times. If there is a car inside is locking the gates "obstruction"?

As a side story I had to ask a non-customer to remove their car a few weeks back. As he backed out he hit the gatepost on the drivers side. Big dent and black scrape down side of passenger door. He jumped out and asked me what I was going to do about the damage. I checked the post which just had a small scuff on to and said that I wasn't planning on claiming off his insurance. he didn't look too impressed.