IB changing to ESA

sparkycat2

nannytone wrote: »

i claim ESA so i now how the systen works.

i became eligable for IB in 1998. i didnt claim beccause i still manged to hold down a job.
143 years later. shpuld i ne entitled to a benefit because i was able to work THEN.

i persomna;;u sont thinki so.

i should get a bwnwfit because my income is low enough.
toure sayibg tgat beause youve worjed fo 2 years in your whole aqdult life, you should be entitled to benefit forever, regardless of your cirvumst6ances.

why would s

IB claimants had regular reassessments. As long as they met the criteria of the all work test, they were eligible to carry on getting the benefit.

For IB claimants not having regular reassessments you are talking about legacy versions of the benefit. All claimants, or at least all below a certain age would have been transferred to newer version of IB and reassessed under the newer all work test. Just as IB claimants are now being transferred to ESA and reassessed using the ESA work capability assessment.

Despite it being a waste of time and money reassessing people regularly if they have a incurable or degenerative conditions. Unless you believe in miracles or change the goal posts of what counts as disabled/ill.

nannytone_2

the ESA criteria is very gifferent from the IB vriteria.
should someone who last worked in 1997 still get conys based benefit? i dont think so.

i had 29+ ywears of contributions. but i lived with a partner who preferred that i didnt woek.

tou cant pay in for 2 year4s and expect to be kept for a lifetime.

if the household income is low, you will qualify.

you cant expect other taxpayers to keep you unless you are in dire need

sparkycat2

nannytone wrote: »

the ESA criteria is very gifferent from the IB vriteria.
should someone who last worked in 1997 still get conys based benefit? i dont think so.

i had 29+ ywears of contributions. but i lived with a partner who preferred that i didnt woek.

tou cant pay in for 2 year4s and expect to be kept for a lifetime.

if the household income is low, you will qualify.

you cant expect other taxpayers to keep you unless you are in dire need

Contributions based benefits are NOT a welfare safety net for the needy poor paid out of general taxation.

They are part of a National Insurance scheme. The clue as to why they are not means tested is in the name INSURANCE. The clue as to why it was paid until the person's health improved or they died is in the name INCAPACITY. The clue as to why for disability and ill health they are paid out on the basis of current recent NI contributions is that it is INCACAPITY INSURANCE.
If I paid for private incapacity insurance with replacement income coverage, and my recent insurance premium was up to date so I was currently covered, and I became unable to work due to ill health or disability I would get paid out for life.

They worked for 2 years and can claim for life is also the exception not the rule. The majority of claimants of IB/ESA are in their 50s and 60s they worked paid NI and later in life became unable to work due to ill health or disability.

Contributions based ESA is the REPLACEMENT benefit for contributions based IB for new and existing claimants. The terms of coverage as far as means testing and duration should be unchanged. This is the first time any UK government has renaged on it's obligations to Legacy Benefit claimants. Doing so underminds the entire NI system as those paying in can not rely on the coverage being honored.

The fact you are unelligible for contributions based IB/ESA is no reason to resent other people being eligible

Also as contributions based IB is replaced with a time limited contributions based ESA WRAG. Why should people care what level ESA is paid at, as most people will never be eligible for the benefit and will make private provision to cover themselves in case of incapaicty, because they do not want to end up reliant on family or living in poverty. All they will care about is how much tax and NI they are paying, those on means tested benefits will be viewed as scroungers.

sammyjammy

princessdon wrote: »

But NI based JSA has always been only for 26 weeks, at least this pays for 12 months, so they have always means tested NI benefits, just now they are means testing ESA in addition to JSA.

Not true. JSA or UB used to be paid for 312 days, thats 52 weeks Monday to Saturday. You could actually work and earn money on the Sunday and not lose a penny from your benefit!

dizzydoris10

Could someone please advise. I have been on IB for some time; I was medically retired following strokes. I have been put in the ESA work related group & went for an interview - the chap advised that my ESA will stop in 8 months - I wont be entitled to income related ESA as I have a small pension ( & hubby works) - he suggested I appeal (he hasn't made another appointment to see me although the DWP's say you have to attend or benefit will stop). I have asked the DWP for a copy of their decision points and intend to follow up as to why I wasn't put in the support group - am I on the right track with this - it's all very confusing.
The daft thing to me that I don't understand is that G.P + 4 hospital consultants and a Dr from the DWP's medical team all examined & supported the ill health retirement ?
Could any one advise. Thank You

Sixer

BigAunty wrote: »

Just playing devil's advocate here, to stimulate debate, am not criticising the OP.

An alternative perspective is that the huge broadening of the welfare state means that the bill is unsustainable, particularly now that the spending on benefits exceeds what employees pay in income tax receipts - historically employees taxation more than covered the benefit bill, hence the huge changes in place to cut it back.

So now the pendulum is swinging back from the state to community, charity and kinship ties, including an expectation that partners with means support and assist their loved ones during times of sickness or low income (this is a principle that has been embedded into the welfare system since its inception, btw, nothing new in general but not been applied to things like IB/DLA to date).

BigAunty - just an FYI you might find interesting...

As others have said, the rise in welfare is overwhelmingly due to increases in pensioner benefits. And so, it would seem unfair to target cuts on working age benefits. (Although I would say that with a decent DLA/PIP system, I see no reason why ESA should not be means tested). Here are some recent links discussing this:

http://markwadsworth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/nick-clegg-utter-utter-!!!!.html (this is from a libertarian/right wing blogger, so can't be dismissed as party politicking)

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/welfare_spending_economy_Lib_dem_conference-28294

Muttleythefrog

dizzydoris10 wrote: »

Could someone please advise. I have been on IB for some time; I was medically retired following strokes. I have been put in the ESA work related group & went for an interview - the chap advised that my ESA will stop in 8 months - I wont be entitled to income related ESA as I have a small pension ( & hubby works) - he suggested I appeal (he hasn't made another appointment to see me although the DWP's say you have to attend or benefit will stop). I have asked the DWP for a copy of their decision points and intend to follow up as to why I wasn't put in the support group - am I on the right track with this - it's all very confusing.
The daft thing to me that I don't understand is that G.P + 4 hospital consultants and a Dr from the DWP's medical team all examined & supported the ill health retirement ?
Could any one advise. Thank You

Appeal if you feel you meet support group criteria.... you only have to meet one of the supprot group descriptors... there are some exceptional circumstances too that can lead to qualification for Support group. Make sure you request a copy of the evidence the DWP used.. that should include ESA85 or ESA85A ATOS report depending upon whether you had medical or not. As for why you were not placed in Support group.. you're not likely to get anything significant from the DWP... bottom line is they (and presumably ATOS whose advice they probably heavily relied upon to take decision) didn't feel any support group descriptor applied to you.. but they did find that 15 points (or more) worth of WRAG descriptors did (or some exceptional circumstances applied).

The issue of ill health retirement. It's important to focus on the fact that entitlement is determined by the descriptors and only the descriptors. Being retired on ill health grounds doesn't actually mean anything in relation to them.... similarly, a GP declaring someone unfit for work is irrelevant too... that doesn;t mean anything in relation to the descriptors. So if you do appeal I'd advise getting targetted medical opinion from GP or specialist... directly supportive of a claim that a (or several) support group descriptor(s) apply and why.

There is an alternative to appealling... which typically you have to do within a month of the decision (late appeals can be accepted if good cause for being late). And that is to focus attention on reassessment. Reassessment is frequent on ESA... and if you haven't been advised when next is then the ESA85/ESA85A should give a prognosis which should give decent idea. You could focus an attempt to get into support group at that time if suitable.

But most important of all is look at the descriptors... if you think you should be in support group after studying them then appealing may be worth it... it does carry risk of course that you could be found fit for work.

Support group functional descriptors
http://www.tameside.gov.uk/esa/lcwra

dizzydoris10

Thanks for your advice - I have requested a copy of the evidence and will ask them to reconsider when I've checked against the descriptors.
Thanks again I'll let you know the outcome

Muttleythefrog

dizzydoris10 wrote: »

Thanks for your advice - I have requested a copy of the evidence and will ask them to reconsider when I've checked against the descriptors.
Thanks again I'll let you know the outcome

No worries... but I wouldn't bother asking them to reconsider (otherwise you'll have to appeal thereafter). If you appeal they will reconsider first automatically... and if they don't change decision they'll forward the paperwork to tribunals service. Sometimes asking for a reconsideration can be useful if you want to delay processes.. but to be honest it is taking the DWP months to reconsider it seems and tribunals take many months after that to arrange.... so rather than stalling processes claimants are getting frustrated by delays.