IB changing to ESA

meliek

Hi I was wondering if anyone could shed some light onto a few things for me, reguarding the change from IB to ESA.

I am currently on IB and have been for nearly 10 years i have been to the medical 3 times and failed one (but won it in tribunal) I have recived the letter saying they will call to tell me that im getting called up again for the change over.

Firstly I dont quite understand how it works, I understand there are 2 types of ESA and that one of them is work related, from what i have read on here is that if you are found to be able to do some kind of work this is the group you are placed in, and if you are not able to do any kind of work then you are in the support group? I hope my understanding is correct.


What i really dont understand is if i was put into the work related group i wouldnt be able to work anyway as i have 2 small children? my husband only works part time hours at the monent and between him and my mother they help me look after our children.

If anyone could help me out in anyway that would be great, sorry if i confused you,

meliek

BigAunty

Employment and Support Allowance provides financial help to people who are unable to work because of illness or disability. It also provides personalised support to those who are able to work.
Work-Related Activity Group

If you are placed in the Work-Related Activity Group, you will be expected to take part in work-focused interviews with your personal adviser. You will get support to help you prepare for suitable work.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Illorinjured/DG_171894

If you do not wish to have employment if you are put into the WRAG then you are free to withdraw your ESA claim because you are not comfortable with the conditions imposed on you.

If you do wish to work, then you can look into either finding a job that fits in with your existing child care arrangements or negotiate with those looking after your kids to see if they can change their scheules, or you can look into how tax credits will pay towards child care costs - other posters on this forum can tell you how this subsidy works which enables households to hold down jobs.

Muttleythefrog

As above.... forget issues of can't work, can do some jobs etc... these are generic concepts that actually don't really mean anything in relation to the actual benefit criteria. ESA has a work capability assessment that looks at various areas of function to see if disabilities exist. WRAG and Support group have statements of disability (descriptors) that determine eligibility. In WRAG you can be asked to take part in work related activity... in Support group you wouldn't.

This is a useful guide for your transfer to ESA.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/ib-reassessment-information-pack.pdf

And the descriptors for the two groups are:
WRAG (limited capability for work test)
http://www.tameside.gov.uk/esa/wca
Support group (limited cap. for work related activity test)
http://www.tameside.gov.uk/esa/lcwra

There are some non functional descriptors too... exceptional circumstances such as for those with terminal illness.

OldFartPlumber

IB is not means tested - you get it for ever . Now the ESA is in - ESA is MEANS TESTED - they caught me out , no not scamming , I`m genuinely disabled and was on IB for years . They don`t tell you , you have to find out that You might loose benifits ! - I did . But me and my partner are not destitute - no thanks to HM Government - we survived Thatcher ( both were working) And we`ll survive this . PS. google ATOS - they will " assess" you - ignore whatever they say and APPEAL without question ! I went from 6 points to 21 on appeal - still lost £ because of means testing though.

zaksmum

OldFartPlumber wrote: »

IB is not means tested - you get it for ever . Now the ESA is in - ESA is MEANS TESTED - they caught me out , no not scamming , I`m genuinely disabled and was on IB for years . They don`t tell you , you have to find out that You might loose benifits ! - I did . But me and my partner are not destitute - no thanks to HM Government - we survived Thatcher ( both were working) And we`ll survive this . PS. google ATOS - they will " assess" you - ignore whatever they say and APPEAL without question ! I went from 6 points to 21 on appeal - still lost £ because of means testing though.

I think that's the whole point of shifting genuinely disabled people from IB to ESA. Means testing. So that if you have savings or income over a certain amount, you're screwed no matter how disabled you are. You won't get a penny.

BigAunty

zaksmum wrote: »

I think that's the whole point of shifting genuinely disabled people from IB to ESA. Means testing. So that if you have savings or income over a certain amount, you're screwed no matter how disabled you are. You won't get a penny.

Just playing devil's advocate here, to stimulate debate, am not criticising the OP.

An alternative perspective is that the huge broadening of the welfare state means that the bill is unsustainable, particularly now that the spending on benefits exceeds what employees pay in income tax receipts - historically employees taxation more than covered the benefit bill, hence the huge changes in place to cut it back.

So now the pendulum is swinging back from the state to community, charity and kinship ties, including an expectation that partners with means support and assist their loved ones during times of sickness or low income (this is a principle that has been embedded into the welfare system since its inception, btw, nothing new in general but not been applied to things like IB/DLA to date).

Muttleythefrog

OldFartPlumber wrote: »

IB is not means tested - you get it for ever . Now the ESA is in - ESA is MEANS TESTED - they caught me out , no not scamming , I`m genuinely disabled and was on IB for years . They don`t tell you , you have to find out that You might loose benifits ! - I did . But me and my partner are not destitute - no thanks to HM Government - we survived Thatcher ( both were working) And we`ll survive this . PS. google ATOS - they will " assess" you - ignore whatever they say and APPEAL without question ! I went from 6 points to 21 on appeal - still lost £ because of means testing though.

Didn't you get transferred (after appeal) to contribution based ESA? Only income related ESA is means tested but IB transferees should go onto contrib based... after a year in WRAG you'd lose payments unless you passed the means test for IR ESA.

Muttleythefrog

zaksmum wrote: »

I think that's the whole point of shifting genuinely disabled people from IB to ESA. Means testing. So that if you have savings or income over a certain amount, you're screwed no matter how disabled you are. You won't get a penny.

This isn't quite true. You could be transferred to Support group of ESA from IB and get money indefinitely... you'd still get it for a year in WRAG. Means testing only applies for Income related ESA.. what this government has done is reduce the time you can get C.B ESA payments while in WRAG to 12 months.

sparkycat2

BigAunty wrote: »

Employment and Support Allowance provides financial help to people who are unable to work because of illness or disability. It also provides personalised support to those who are able to work.
Work-Related Activity Group.

ESA Work-Related Activity Group are not deemed able to work they are deemed capable of undertake work-related actitivity that is reasonable in their circumstances. Work realted activities are activities that are aimed at helping the person to hopefully be able to join the workforce at some point. They can not be mandated to apply for jobs, undertake medical treatment, take up work or unpaid work experience.

nannytone_2

it seems ridiculous to me, that if you have worked for 2 years, you can get benefit indefinately!

if you are disabled or ill you will get DLA,

how mant iverlapping benefits does any one persin need?

ESA is already more gnerous than JSA, it acknowledges the difficulties and higher costs that accompany disability.

i worked for 20+ years before my disability made things impossible. im now on income vased ESA.
but while i lived with my partner .... he supported me .... and why shouldnt he? he got the benefit of my company!

people need to realise that their tax/NI contributions arent put into a pot with their names on.
the benefits sytem works on need and not want

BigAunty

sparkycat2 wrote: »

ESA Work-Related Activity Group are not deemed able to work they are deemed capable of undertake work-related actitivity that is reasonable in their circumstances. Work realted activities are activities that are aimed at helping the person to hopefully be able to join the workforce at some point. They can not be mandated to apply for jobs, undertake medical treatment, take up work or unpaid work experience.

The top part of my quote is actually lifted from the Direct Gov website, I didn't invent it.

I think you are splitting hairs - the definition provided there is very evidentally one based on the expectation that the claimant has the potential for employment and they will receive support in this area.

People in this group may not be forced to apply for work but clearly there is an inbuilt expectation that those who can, should. They belong to a group that has been purposely set up because the assessments have identified some capability for employment and want to remove the barriers that prevent them from entering the workforce. Whether the person in this group agrees with this is a moot point.