are brick arched lintels strong enough?

Ectophile

joinaman,

The point of the certificate is nothing to do with the guarantee. It's to say that the work has been done by a qualified fitter, not a shoddy DIY job.

Most of what goes into a house is covered by building regulations, to ensure that houses are safe, and fit to live in. A botched DIY job could leave the house dangerous or structurally unsound.

keystone

joinaman wrote: »

Why the hell should you get "A massive reduction" in house price just because of the missing certification for windows?

Because as a buyer with obviously new windows in I'd be using lack thereof as a lever to get the price down. Probably be looking at at least £ 10k. Nothing to do with anything but a straight commercial opportunity to reduce the outlay.

I have been fitting windows since the 60s, from making my own timber frames to purchasing ready made upvc. I have fitted new windows in most of the properties I own, without certificates.

Bully for you. Your qualifications and experience are surely impecabble and not under question but are not relevant unless you are doing this installation for the OP and can guarantee hand on heart that the fit meets regs.

Are you saying that the windows/installation is unsafe/rubbish just because of no certificate?.
Does the certificate give you replacement windows? Does it make them better ?

Of course not. OP seems to think that they can put the windows in and use an indemnity insurance as a substitute for a certificate to cover them when selling. Indemnity isnsurance is for when "I've lost the certificate" not in place of the certificates. Buyers solicitor will have a field day and cause no end of problems. Is it worth it not to spend £ 200 to get the BCO to inspect and issue a bit of paper. Of course not. Thats the second bit you've driven straight past.

If you are not going to sell/move before 5 years after fitting then any paperwork is a waste of time, because even the gaurantees have run out

Thats the third bit you have missed. OP has already declared an intention to sell in about two years.

When I bought this house, the solicitor was delaying the move trying to find the Fensa certificate for the back door. She looked surprised when I said I did not want it due to the door being nearly 6 years old

Thats your preogative and is largely based on your industry knowledge couple with the fact that you can probably look at a door/window and say if its OK or not. OPs buyer will almost certainly not have the same attitude nor confidence as you.

What the hell happened to common sense?

I was thinking the exact self same thing.

Oh and by the way how do you get your installations certified if you refused to join FENSA as you can't self certify if you are not. Do you call the BCO out or do you just not bother. I'm guess its the latter in which case all you do is expose your customers to potential problems down the road due to pig headed obstinacy. Thats very responsible. Whether you thinks that these bits of paper are worthless or not the bureaucray is there and we have to live with it - two jags saw to that.

Cheers

keystone

s_b wrote: »

i would like to say a personal thankyou to joinaman because i do exactly as he

So you are also looking at the problem through the wrong end of a fogged lens.

jees those old builders were bodgers as well

Yes they probably were by today's standards but call 'em "bodgers" then and you'd get your face filled in. They didn't have to work to todays' building regulations either which luckily aren't retrospective for the vast majority of houses in the land. Heres an example of gross stupidity in BRs. I put a conservatory on the back of my house 10 years ago. The dwarf walls had to have 1 metre footings to comply. As I was digging I discovered that my 1930's house actually sat on no more than 9" of concrete but the conservatory had to have over 3 feet. Now where's the logic in that? There is none. But applying JM's and your warped logic to it I should just have said sod BRs and put em on nine inches of concrete.

OP has now thanked the pair of you for giving her permission to do what she wants and not what she should do. Thats very responsible of the pair of you now isn't it?

Cheers

societys_child

Ectophile wrote: »

joinaman,

The point of the certificate is nothing to do with the guarantee. It's to say that the work has been done by a qualified fitter, not a shoddy DIY job.

Most of what goes into a house is covered by building regulations, to ensure that houses are safe, and fit to live in. A botched DIYjob could leave the house dangerous or structurally unsound.

You seem to suggest that all DIY is botched and shoddy.

What about the gas fitter who forgot to solder 3 joints and filled the house with gas ( I thought it was supposed to be tested upon completion)

The back of a consumer unit that melted because the wires were left loose (think the electrician must have used his thumb nail)

The FENSA reg'd window fitters who used a hand saw to trim round the outer edge of the frame because they'd got the measurement wrong (a couple of millimeters too big)

But that's alright as long as there was some paperwork issued.

keystone

@ SC

I have to agree about the implication of the post you criticise and the truth is that the statement is wrong anyway. The point of the certificate is to certify that the installation complies with Building Regulations and nothing else. Whether its done by a professional or by a DIYer is irrelevant. The second para of his post is spot on except that a botched pro job could also just as easily leave the property equally vulnerable.

Cheers

s_b

keystone wrote: »

So you are also looking at the problem through the wrong end of a fogged lens.

Yes they probably were by today's standards but call 'em "bodgers" then and you'd get your face filled in. They didn't have to work to todays' building regulations either which luckily aren't retrospective for the vast majority of houses in the land. Heres an example of gross stupidity in BRs. I put a conservatory on the back of my house 10 years ago. The dwarf walls had to have 1 metre footings to comply. As I was digging I discovered that my 1930's house actually sat on no more than 9" of concrete but the conservatory had to have over 3 feet. Now where's the logic in that? There is none. But applying JM's and your warped logic to it I should just have said sod BRs and put em on nine inches of concrete.

OP has now thanked the pair of you for giving her permission to do what she wants and not what she should do. Thats very responsible of the pair of you now isn't it?

Cheers

i think you will find that op thanked me for advising that the brick walls will come in like mine do so they have to measure carefully as i explained

maybe rather than fighting your cornerr for builders of the world and to be frank im sick of having builders one even in a nice cosy federation of master builders cos it said it on his van not one of them has done a decent job for me
i had to get a 73 year old ex builder to redo some roof tiles last year after the last bodger had taken my money and made the job worse

keystone

s_b wrote: »

i think you will find that op thanked me for advising that the brick walls will come in like mine do so they have to measure carefully as i explained

Well I am going to apologise here because the thing that got me riled up was your first line when I already had my tale up through JM. Result was I didn't actually read that part of your post. However, I have a sneaky suspicion that OP was thanking you for your support of JM.

maybe rather than fighting your cornerr for builders of the world

Eh? What are you talking about?

and to be frank im sick of having builders one even in a nice cosy federation of master builders cos it said it on his van not one of them has done a decent job for me

So you have an agenda perhaps? FWIW IMO FMB isn't worth squat. Its a club that you pay to belong to and then have the privelege of a nice sticker to put on the van. It doesn't actually mean a damned thing..

Cheers

s_b

keystone wrote: »

Well I am going to apologise here because the thing that got me riled up was your first line when I already had my tale up through JM. Result was I didn't actually read that part of your post. However, I have a sneaky suspicion that OP was thanking you for your support of JM.

Eh? What are you talking about?

So you have an agenda perhaps? FWIW IMO FMB isn't worth squat. Its a club that you pay to belong to and then have the privelege of a nice sticker to put on the van. It doesn't actually mean a damned thing..

Cheers

yes i know
i was just seeing your reply
it comes out good
truce:)?

forgot to add no agenda ,but i am a motor trader so see a few things on both sides

keystone

s_b wrote: »

truce:)?

Bien sur.

Cheers