Blue Badge - Reduced Tax???

JS477

Off topic again. You can park in a BB bay as long as the disabled person (the person to whom the BB is issued to ) is a passenger in the car. The BB holder does not have to be the driver.

BobQ

pogofish wrote: »

What on earth are you on about?

The BB scheme does not apply in the vast majority of supermarket car parks.

The Blue Badge Scheme does not apply in off road places but the owners of the carpark (such as a supermarket) can make possession of a blue badge a condition of using the disabled bays and can exclude those who abuse it from using the carpark.

BobQ

kurgon wrote: »

I don't have to explain anything! I think they stopped shooting the messenger in the 1800s...
Exact wording from the new advice booklets:
"If you are a passenger then a non disabled person can use it to drop you off or pick you up. Once assisted to your destination, you should remove your badge from the vehicle and the driver should make an appropriate parking payment or move the vehicle."

Instead of quoting phrases from unspecified publications can you please quote the issue date and title of the book and indicate which section this appears in.

BobQ

kurgon wrote: »

I don't have to explain anything! I think they stopped shooting the messenger in the 1800s...
Exact wording from the new advice booklets:
"If you are a passenger then a non disabled person can use it to drop you off or pick you up. Once assisted to your destination, you should remove your badge from the vehicle and the driver should make an appropriate parking payment or move the vehicle."

You are right, these words appear in the Transport for SCOTLAND version. You may be right that Scotland has introduced this more limited version, or it may be some clumbsy phrasing.

The English version states:
"
The badge is for your use and benefit only. It must only be displayed if you are travelling in the vehicle as a driver or passenger, or if someone is collecting you or dropping you off and needs to park at the place where you are being collected or dropped.Do not allow other people to use the badge to do something on your behalf, such as shopping or collecting something for you, unless you are travelling with them[FONT=Helvetica 55 Roman,Helvetica 55 Roman][FONT=Helvetica 55 Roman,Helvetica 55 Roman].
• You must never give the badge to friends or family to allow them to park for free, even if they are visiting you.• [/FONT][/FONT]You should not use the badge to allow non-disabled people to take advantage of the benefits while you sit in the car. [FONT=Helvetica 55 Roman,Helvetica 55 Roman][FONT=Helvetica 55 Roman,Helvetica 55 Roman]Although it is not illegal for a badge holder, or a non-disabled person waiting for the badge holder to return, to remain in the vehicle while the Blue Badge is displayed, consideration should be given to using a car park whenever possible."
[/FONT][/FONT]

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@disabled/documents/digitalasset/dg_186198.pdf

Be_Happy

You're right. It's Scottish, but it does come postmarked from South of England, and comes with a time card which we don't use in Scotland so I assumed it to be going nationwide. Can be viewed at https://www.bluebadgescotland.org.

Lum

BobQ wrote: »

The Blue Badge Scheme does not apply in off road places but the owners of the carpark (such as a supermarket) can make possession of a blue badge a condition of using the disabled bays

Wouldn't that violate the Equality Act, since that requires them to provide adjustments for all disabled people, not just those who have actually finished that damn form and received a decision.

As for our BB use, when travelling together, the BB and disabled bays are only used if my partner is actually getting out of the car. If we're just pulling into Tesco so I can grab a couple of sandwiches while she remains in the car then a standard bay is used.

I do try to find an end space if possible to give her the option of struggling out* should she feel the need to do so. It's really not nice being trapped in the car like that, but it's also not nice to take up one of a limited number of disabled bays that you don't strictly need.

*It's a lot harder for her to unload the chair from my car as it's a 5 door rather than a 3 door. Would involve a lot of pain and probably a bit of hopping on one foot, but better than not being able to get out at all.

BobQ

Lum wrote: »

Wouldn't that violate the Equality Act, since that requires them to provide adjustments for all disabled people, not just those who have actually finished that damn form and received a decision.

As for our BB use, when travelling together, the BB and disabled bays are only used if my partner is actually getting out of the car. If we're just pulling into Tesco so I can grab a couple of sandwiches while she remains in the car then a standard bay is used.

I do try to find an end space if possible to give her the option of struggling out* should she feel the need to do so. It's really not nice being trapped in the car like that, but it's also not nice to take up one of a limited number of disabled bays that you don't strictly need.

*It's a lot harder for her to unload the chair from my car as it's a 5 door rather than a 3 door. Would involve a lot of pain and probably a bit of hopping on one foot, but better than not being able to get out at all.

It probably would breach the Equality Act as you say but you could equally apply the argument to a local authority in relation to its on road bays!

There is a discussion paper on the Parliamentary website that briefs MPs on the BB scheme. As I recall what it says is that while the BB Scheme is not applicable to a private car park, the owner can if they wish come to an agreement to allow the local authority to take action against the transgressor on private property. Apparently the law already allows this to happen.

www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN01360.pdf

Regarding travelling with a disabled person, I previously understood that it was illegal to park in a disabled bay if the disabled person remains in the car and a non-disabled person alights from the vehicle. (Seemed quite fair to me).

The latest guidance suggests that its OK for this to happen provided the reason for the non-disabled person getting out is to do something on behalf of the disabled person. I have always felt uncomfortable with my disabled relative when I have pulled up in a disabled bay and she says something like "Can you pop into the shop and see if they have any?" to inform her decision on whether to waste the effort of going in to find out.

"Do not allow other people to use the badge to do something on your behalf, such as shopping or collecting something for you, unless you are travelling with them[FONT=Helvetica 55 Roman,Helvetica 55 Roman][FONT=Helvetica 55 Roman,Helvetica 55 Roman].
"[/FONT][/FONT]
Does anyone know if this interpretation is correct? Or whether it is a change? It seems open to abuse?

Parva

It absolutely amazes me how many people have to quote chapter and verse from bloody rules, which have had to be made because there are always numpties that will attempt to ignore what should be common courtesy to disabled people that hold the blue badge.

It's simple courtesy at the end of the day. If I (as the disabled BB holder) am going with my son / daughter to the supermarket but don't intend on getting out of the car (send son / daughter in to do the shop) then I park in a normal parking bay. If I am going to be getting out of the car then I'll use one of the disabled spots (if some **** in a BMW X5 with no BB hasn't claimed it first). Similarly, if my son drives me to the supermarket (on one of my bad days) then the same applies, if I am staying in the car then it's a normal parking spot, if I'm getting out of the car and into the wheelchair then it's a disabled spot. And yes, if I can't get a disabled spot then I use a parent and child spot. I need it purely to get the wheelchair to the door of the car, normal spots are too narrow for this.

Get a grip people, sheesh! Of course this is why there's so many rules and red-tape, because idiots that want to take advantage will challenge every rule in the book. I really do not understand what is so difficult about the concept of using common courtesy where these bays exist.

Richie-from-the-Boro

"""Does anyone know if this interpretation is correct? Or whether it is a change? It seems open to abuse?"""

It was always [custom & practice] that way. it was then always abused, and will certainly be so in the future. No case law as far as I'm aware ever came out of it.

The current situation however is absolutely 100% totally different. In terms of 'on road' [not supermarkets & hospitals] parking. Previously no inter town / area / borough / county / country / checks could be made without a great deal of expensive man hours chasing paper trails through various BB issuing departments. The new BB issue is a national dBASE which is instantly accessible to an authorised officer on a hand held device. All details of the registered holder including the indisputable photograph can be viewed instantly. This will rid the scheme of most problems from a small time misdemeanant to an outright badge thief.

The issues of 'your use and benefit only' and ' not allowing non-disabled people to take advantage of the benefits' were always there and were widely abused by the disabled who by definition must have been complicit for the event to happen. As stated above the new scheme with its badge dBASE is already live and will give every opportunity to any authority wishing to 'clamp down' on misuse.

What will happen in the real world is the redtops will run a month long tirade in the future backed up by the usual surveys & statistics and, local authorities will be forced to employ authorised contractors to clamp - fine and have BB rights suspended or revoked.

Nobody reading this should have a problem with that scenario, I'm sure. It will have the benefit of getting rid of the [24 August 2012] 1 in 10 chavs who take a space their not entitled to and have the [31 August 2012] offending blue badges removed from circulation it is about time the scheme, an essential service for disabled was brought into the 21st century, all BB holders should welcome it.

Lum

OT but I seriously hope you are just using dBASE as a shorthand for Database and that they aren't seriously running this scheme on Borland dBASE, because that software is ancient and terrible.

Thing is... government IT project so it wouldn't surprise me. I wonder if ATOS run it?

Back on topic now.

Local authority disabled bays breaching the equality act by excluding non BB holding disable people? I don't think they do as separate legislation applies to local authority bays.

One thing I really hated was in the interim 3 months while we were waiting for the blue badge, parking in a large council run car park for a nearby cinema, having to create a traffic jam after the film because I could not get an end space so had to roll the car out of the space to make room for my GF's wheelchair.

It was amusing one time though, as I got some abuse shouted from an X6 driver who I'd noticed earlier parked in a disabled space with no BB. So I (falsely) suggested that maybe if they hadn't taken up the last disabled space then we wouldn't be doing this right now. It certainly shut them up.